Person Info
- Name: Helen
- Sex: F
- Birth: After 1235 b
- Death: After Feb 1294/5 d
Parents:
Family:
Marriage:
Marriage:
Children:
- Gratney Earl Of Mar Birth: 1
Death: Before Sep 1305
- Duncan Birth: 2
Death: After 28 Aug 1296
- Alexander Birth: 3
Death: After 12 Dec 1297
- Isabel Of Mar Death: Before 1302
- Margaret Of Mar
- Margaret Of Mar
Bibliography
-
Burke, Sir John Bernard, Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage Baronetage and Knightage. 99th edition. London: Burke's Peerage, 1949. Available at http://archive.org/details/burkesgenealogic1949unse. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Burke Peerage [cx0-9]*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 01 A-Basing. London: St Catherine Press, 1910. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Vol 1 also available at http://archive.org/completepeerageo01coka Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP I [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 05 E-Goojerat. London: St Catherine Press, 1926. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP V [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 08, Lindley-Moate. London: St Catherine Press, 1932. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP VIII [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Cokayne, George Edward, Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, vol 12-1, Skelmersdale-Towton. London: St Catherine Press, 1953. Reprinted (4 per page) Gloucester: A Sutton, 1982. Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/271412 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP XII/1 [Ap][p0-9].*].
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Phillips, Chris, Proposed Corrections and Additions to the Complete Peerage, http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/index.shtml Information from this source tagged as [Ref: CP++(proposed) .*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Two wives of Malcolm Earl of Fife. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 12/3/2000. Subject: 2 Helens ferch Llywelyn. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/xor_TCX5JR4/m/W51-vVZ4aEUJ. Author address: douglasrichardson at hotmail dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 12/3/2000].
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Richardson, Douglas, First marriage of Malcolm Earl of Fife. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 4/21/2005. Subject: Fact of Fiction? Re: Helen verch Llewelyn of Wales married John E of Huntington (1207-37). Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/vkujKzeZhgk/m/2bSgro77U0cJ. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 4/21/2005-234630].
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Richardson, Douglas, Ellen, wife of Donald, Earl of Mar. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 8/10/2003. Subject: Ellen, wife of Donald, Earl of Mar (was Re: King's kinsfolk). Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/YVsMh3Pk2t0/m/RTkahbTPeJ4J. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 8/10/2003-221549].
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Richardson, Douglas, Two marriages of Malcolm Earl of Fife. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 8/9/2003. Subject: King's kinsfolk: Robert II, King of Scotland and David, Duke of Rothesay. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/YVsMh3Pk2t0/m/KuPO2PgI4fwJ. Author address: royalancestry at msn dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 8/9/2003-134113].
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Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. II: Die Ausserdeutschen Staaten Die Regierenden Hauser der Ubrigen Staaten Europas. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1984. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: ES II #[0-9]*].
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Ravilious, John, Thomas Earl of Mar and Margaret Graham. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 6/21/2006. Subject: SP Correction: Alan, earl of Menteith (d.ca. 1308) and the Earls of Fife. Available at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/izu3erFZCaE/m/VY4e_xRCaSgJ. Author address: Therav3 at aol dot com. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 6/21/2006-204056].
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Paget, Gerald, The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales. London: Charles Skilton Ltd, 1977. Nypl ARF+ 78-835. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p[0-9]*].
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Reitwiesner, William Addams, The Children of Joan, Princess of North Wales, The Genealogist (APSG), vol 1 no 1 (1981), p80-95. NYPL APA 82-1000. Available at https://www.americanancestors.org/databases/genealogist-the/image/. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Reitwiesner Joan p[0-9]*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v1[pc][0-9]*].
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Richardson, Douglas, Royal Ancestry. Salt Lake City, Utah: Douglas Richardson, 2013. NYPL JFF 16-1184 v1-5 Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p[0-9]*].
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Paul, Sir James Balfour, Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1904. NYPL ARO (Scots Peerage) (too fragile to copy). Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/216265. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: SP I p[0-9]*].
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Paul, Sir James Balfour, Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1904. NYPL ARO (Scots Peerage) (too fragile to copy). Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/216265. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: SP IV p[0-9]*].
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Paul, Sir James Balfour, Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1904. NYPL ARO (Scots Peerage) (too fragile to copy). Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/216265. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: SP V p[0-9]*].
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Watney, Vernon James, The Wallop Family and their Ancestry, Oxford:John Johnson, 1928. LDS Film#1696491 items 6-9. NYPL ARZ+ (Wallop) (Watney, V. J. Wallop family). Available at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/213421. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Watney WALLOP #[0-9]*].
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Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Weis AR7 #[0-9][0-9]*[A-Z]*].
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Weis, Frederick L, Magna Charta Sureties 1215: The Barons Named in the Magna Charta and Some of Their Descendants. 4th Ed. Baltimore: Gen Pub Co, 1991. Information from this source tagged as [Ref: Weis MC #[0-9][0-9]*].
Sources for birth and parent Information
- date:
- after 1235 [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 8/10/2003-221549]
- not more than an infant in 1240 [Ref: Reitwiesner Joan p85]
Sources with Inaccurate birth and parent Information
- date:
- eighth daughter [Ref: Reitwiesner Joan p84],
- parents:
- Llewellyn Ap Iorworth Prince of North Wales (#11089) & Joan (#13331)
[Ref: Reitwiesner Joan p84, Reitwiesner Joan p86],
- father:
- Llewellyn Ap Iorworth, Prince of North Wales (#11089) [Ref: CP I p306,
CP V p373, SP I p427, SP IV p9, SP V p578, Watney WALLOP #31, Watney WALLOP
#651, Weis AR7 #252, Weis MC #41]
- illeg dau of Llewellyn ap Griffith, Prince of Wales (#11089) [Ref: CP
XII/1 p541]
- said to be Llewellyn Ap Iorworth (#11089) [Ref: CP VIII p403 (with
corr in XIV p464)],
- note:
- not a daughter of Llewellyn [Ref: CP++(proposed) Fife 8/24/2003 (CP V
p373), CP++(proposed) Mar 8/24/2003 (CP VIII p403), Douglas Richardson SGM
12/3/2000]
Sources for death Information
- date:
- after 1291 [Ref: SP IV p9]
- after 1295 [Ref: CP VIII p400f]
- after Feb 1294/5 [Ref: SP V p578]
- after Feb 1295 [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p182]
- living Feb 1294/5 [Ref: CP V p373 (with corr in XIV p323), CP VIII p403,
Reitwiesner Joan p86, Richardson RoyalAnc v5p301]
Sources with Information about marriage to Malcolm MACDUFF, Earl Of Fife
- date:
- first marriage of Helen [Ref: Burke Peerage p1332, CP V p373, CP VIII
p403, CP XII/1 p541, John Ravilious SGM 6/21/2006-204056, Reitwiesner Joan
p86, SP I p427, SP IV p9, SP V p578, Watney WALLOP #651]
- first marriage of Helen, Malcolm an old man [Ref: Weis AR7 #252]
- second marriage of Malcolm [Ref: Richardson RoyalAnc v5p301]
- second marriage of Malcolm and first of Helen [Ref: CP++(proposed) Fife
8/24/2003 (CP V p373), CP++(proposed) Mar 8/24/2003 (CP VIII p403), Douglas
Richardson SGM 12/3/2000, Douglas Richardson SGM 8/9/2003-134113]
Sources with Inaccurate marriage information
- child:
- Colban (#21160) [Ref: CP V p373, Reitwiesner Joan p86, SP IV p9]
- Macduff (#21163) [Ref: Reitwiesner Joan p86, SP IV p9]
- Marjory (#23932) [Ref: John Ravilious SGM 6/21/2006-204056]
Sources with Information about marriage to Sir Donald Earl Of Mar
- date:
- after 1266 [Ref: Paget HRHCharles p182]
- after 1266, as second marraige of Helen [Ref: SP V p578]
- first marriage of Donald [Ref: Weis MC #41]
- second marriage of Helen [Ref: CP V p373, CP VIII p403, CP XII/1 p541,
CP++(proposed) Fife 8/24/2003 (CP V p373), CP++(proposed) Mar 8/24/2003 (CP
VIII p403), Douglas Richardson SGM 12/3/2000, Douglas Richardson SGM
8/9/2003-134113, John Ravilious SGM 6/21/2006-204056, Reitwiesner Joan p86,
Richardson RoyalAnc v5p301, SP I p427, SP IV p9, Watney WALLOP #651, Weis AR7
#252],
- child:
- [Ref: Burke Peerage p1332, CP I p306, CP VIII p400f, CP VIII p403, CP
XII/1 p541, ES II #92, John Ravilious SGM 6/21/2006-204056, Paget HRHCharles
p158, Paget HRHCharles p182, Reitwiesner Joan p86, Richardson RoyalAnc v1p189,
Richardson RoyalAnc v1p605, SP I p427, SP V p578, Watney WALLOP #31, Watney
WALLOP #651, Weis AR7 #252, Weis MC #41]
Research Notes:
(v Nord Wales) [Ref: ES II #92]
said to have been daughter of Llewellyn the Great [Ref: Burke Peerage p1332,
CP VIII p403 (with corr in XIV p464), Paget HRHCharles p158]
sister to the 1st wife of King Robert BRUCE [Ref: CP I p306]
clearly daughter of Llewellyn, but not to be confused with another daughter
Helen (successively wife of John le Scot and Robert de Quincy), whose mother
was Princess Joan [Ref: Weis AR7 #252]
Andrew MacEwen of Maine has reviewed the chronology of the Earls of Fife and
determinged that Ellen, the surviving wife of Malcolm, Earl of Fife, was a
later, much younger second wife. Ellen was evidently not the mother of Earl
Malcolm's heir. As such, he postulates that Earl Malcolm had an earlier
unknown first wife and it was the earlier wife who was the daughter of
Llewellyn. As for the identity of Earl Malcolm's first wife, Mr MacEwen
suspects Susanna, the legitimate daughter of Prince Llewellyn by his wife,
Joan of England [Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 12/3/2000]
given that she had five children after her second marriage after 1266,
she would have been born no earlier than 1235. She could not possibly be
Malcolm's wife who is mentioned in a document dated 6 Jul 1237. [Ref: Douglas
Richardson SGM 8/10/2003-221549]
There is no record of Ellen as the wife of Malcolm, Earl of Fife. The
Scotichronicon records that Earl Malcolm's widow married Donald, Earl of Mar.
There is a rent roll dated 1290 which names Ellen, Countess of Mar (published
in Stevenson's Illustrations of Scottish History). It is commonly assumed that
Ellen, Countess of Mar (named in the 1290 record) is the same woman as Earl
Malcolm's surviving widow. That she is also the same woman as his earlier
wife, the daughter of Llywelyn mentioned in 1239, MacEwen says is impossible.
[Ref: Douglas Richardson SGM 4/21/2005-234630]
Pedigree of Helen
Helen
Descendants of Helen
2nd generation
3rd generation
4th generation
5th generation