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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1990-02 > 0634665424
From: Kay Allen AG < >
Subject: Re: Margaret Stanley m. Torbock or Troutbeck
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1990 07:57:04 -0800
Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> > Snipped.
> >
> > > > > 1. Adam Troutbeck
> > > > > married Margaret Butler, of Bewsey
> > > > > daughter of Sir John Butler, of Bewsey, and Margaret Gerard
> > > > > (they had children)
> > > >
> > > > According to _The Troutbeck Family_ by John Brownbill, the mother of
> > > > Margaret Troutbeck
> > who married Talbot was not Margaret Butler but Joan
> > > > Molyneux the widow of Hamon Mascy of Denwall. It is possible, but I am
> > > > not entirely convinced by his arguments.
> > > > >
> Dear Kay,
> I have Sir John Talbot married twice, first to Margaret Troutbeck
> (born circa 1492) and they had at least two children; then he married
> Elizabeth Wrottesley and had at least one more child.
>
> I have Weis the fifth edition and in lines 7,20,199 the Troutbeck family
> appears and everywhere Margaret Troutbeck's mother was
> Margaret Butler.
>
> Also (sorry to mention it) Sir John Talbot (N12421) and Margaret Troutbeck
> (N12422) are mentioned by Paget and again Margaret's mother is still
> Margaret Butler.
>
> Some of the details I have come from Weis, Burke's Peerage (1938 page 2237)
> and an article by Patrick Montague-Smith about the ancestors of Captain Mark
> Phillips.
I know that Margaret Butler is the conventenal wisdom. But if
Weis/Sheppard, Faris, Burke, Paget, et al. were as terminally thorough
in searching the literature as I am :-) they would have been aware
that an alternative maternity had been presented. I didn't say that I
agreed with him, I just said that he believed that the mother was Adam's
second wife, Joan Molyneux, widow of Haman Massy of Denham.
>
> Where does Joan Molyneux come from? Was she a third wife? A mistress?
She was Adam Troutbeck's second wife. Brownbill cites Chester Plea Roll
r. 192, m. 2 as his supporting documentation for this marriage which
took place before or about 1491. She is supposed to be dtr. & heir of a
Robert Molyneux. There is according to The Genealogist
NS7(1890/1):245-6, a marriage contract by this Joan, as a widow, dated
13 October 1490, for the marriage of her dtr. Jane Massy.
The whole issue hinges on the age of Margaret who married Talbot. Her
uncle's IPM in 1510 calls her 16 and more. The question is how much
more? It could be several years more. Since she was already married, she
was considered of age and therefore the jury didn't have to be as
scrupulously accurate in stating her age as if there were a wardship and
money for the king at stake.
Good luck,
K
PS This is written under copyright!
> Best wishes
> Leo
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