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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0922344924
From: Stewart Baldwin< >
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Cleopatra descendants into medieval European
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 06:55:24 GMT
(Doug Gentile) wrote:
>Since the topic has been broached, I have seen a number of trees that
>appear able to trace a lineage from Marc Antony through Claudius through
>the Britons to Constantine and from there through the Vandals into
>Medieval lines. For example, below is a tree I pieced together from
>other trees, but cannot attest to its veracity (I have the sources where
>I got the information for anyone who would like them). I would like to
>hear this group's thoughts on this possibility.
Your original posting had a lot of extra spaces (indentations left
over from a genealogy program?) which made it extremely difficult to
read (at least on my newsreader), so I have removed much of the
spacing in my quote below of the genealogy about which you asked, but
hopefully left everything else intact (except for a couple of
irrelevant collateral relations at the end of your posting which I
removed).
This genealogy does not stand up, and includes quite a few individuals
who never even existed, as indicated in the comments below. To date,
no reliably documented descents which go back that far have been
discovered. There are some intriguing possibilities (which all
involve numerous conjectural links) which have been discussed here
from time to time, and have usually used the acronym "DFA" ("Descent
>From Antiquity"), which makes a convenient search string if you want
to dredge up old articles on the subject from Dejanews
( http://www.dejanews.com/ ).
>Descendants of Marcus Antonius
>
> 1 Marcus Antonius B: About 82 B.C.D: About 30 B.C.
> +Octavia B: About 69 B.C.D: 11 B.C. m: in 40 B.C.
> 2 Antonia AugustaNickname(s): "the Younger" (Antonia Minor)
> B: About 36 B.C.D: About 37 - 38 A.D.
> +Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus B: About 38 B.C.D: About
> 9 B.C.
> 3 Claudius I B: August 1, 10 B.C in .Lugundum (Lyons), Gaul
> (France) D: October 13, 54 A.D. +Aemilia Lepida
> 4 Genuissa Claudia of Rome D: About 50 A.D.
> +Aviragus of the Britons
We have now entered Fantasyland. Genuissa never existed, and the same
is true for the next several generations (through generation 9).
> 5 Meric of the Britons b: Unknown d: Abt. 125
> +Julia of the Iceni
> 6 Eurgen of Siluria
> 7 Gladys of Siluria
> +Lucius Mawr of Britain
> 8 Gladys
> +Cadvan of Combria
> 9 Strada
> +Coel of England Nickname(s): "Old King Coel"
The story that Constatine the Great's mother Helena was the daughter
of a British "Old King Cole" is a fabrication of the notorious
Geoffrey of Monmouth. Note the conflicting information: Why would a
daughter of a British king be born in Bithynia? The answer, of
course, is because Helena had no connection to Britain. (This Coel of
Geoffrey of Monmouth should not be confused with the Coel Hen of the
Welsh genealogies, who, if he existed at all, would have lived a
couple of centuries later.)
>10 Helena Augusta b: Abt. 248 in Drepanum,
> Bithyniad: Abt. 328
> +Constantius I b: Abt. March 31, 250
> d: July 25, 306 in Eboracum, York, England
With "generation" 10, we have now temporarily entered reality
>11 Constantine I Nickname(s): "The Great"
> b: February 27, 287/88 in Nis, Serbia
> d: May 22, 337
> +Flavia Maxima Fausta b: Abt. 293 in
> Rome d: 326 in Executed by Constantine m: 307 in Trier
>12 Constantius II b: Abt. February 316/17 in Atles
> d: Abt. 340 in Aquileia, Italy
> +Fausta
>13 Constantius III d: Abt 421
> +Galla Placidia b: Bet. 388 - 390
> d: November 27, 450 in Rome
>14 Valentinian III b: 419 d: Abt. 455
> +Licinia Eudoxia b: 422
> d: Aft. 465 m: 437 in Constantinople
>15 Eudoxia of Rome
> +Hunneric of the Vandals
>b: Unknownd: Abt. 480
>16 Hilderic of the Vandals b: Unknown d: Abt. 530
I'm not sure exactly where the genealogy becomes bad again, as I don't
have sources handy for the Roman and Vandal dynasties, but by
generation 17, we are clearly back in the land of fictional characters
who never existed, where we stay through generation 22.
>17 Hildis of the Vandals b: Abt. 572
> +Valdar Hroarsson b: Abt. 547
>18 Harold Valdarsson
>19 Halfdan Haroldsson
> +Maolda
>20 Ivar Halfdansson b: Abt. 612 in Denmark
>21 Aud Ivarsdottir b: Abt. 633 in Denmark d: Unknown
> +Radbard of Russia b: Abt. 638 in Garderidge, Russia
> d: Unknown m: Abt. 659
>22 Randver Radbardsson
>23 Sigurd Ring
Whether Sigurd Ring ever existed or not depends on how much you want
to bend the definition of the word "existed". There were two kings
Sigifridus and Anulo [whose name became mistranslated as "Ring" due to
the similarity with Latin "anulus" ("ring")] who fought each other in
812 for the Danish throne, both of whom were killed in the struggle.
Later pseudohistorians combined these failed claimants into one
person, the mythical Sigurd Ring, and turned him into a mythical
conqueror of Denmark and Sweden.
>24 Ragnar Lodbrock
> +Aslaug Sigurdsdottir
With Ragnar, it is pretty much the same situation. He was not
historical as such, but it can be plausibly suggested that he was
based at least in part on two or more individuals who MAY have been
historical.
>25 Sigurd Ragnarson Nickname(s): "Snake-in-Eye"
>25 IvarRagnarsson Nickname(s): "The Boneless"
>25 Halfdan Ragnarsson Nickname(s): "White Shirt"
>25 Bjorn Ragnarson Nickname(s): "Ironside"
>25 Ragnhildir Ragnardottir
>25 Alof Ragnarsdottir
>25 Ubbe Ragnarsson
Although there were Vikings named Sigifrid, Ivar, Halfdan, Bjorn, and
(probably) Ubbe who can be traced as the historical prototypes of the
later legendary individuals having the above names, the above cannot
be regarded as a family group, since it is virtually certain that they
were not all brothers (though some of them probably were), and none of
them is provided with an alleged parent in any source until nearly two
hundred years after their own time.
Stewart Baldwin
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