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From: John Carmi Parsons< >
Subject: Megingoz/Meingaud
Date: 17 Sep 1998 08:55:21 -0700
I am trying to sort out a series of conflicting statements in my notes
about one Megingoz/Meingaud (Maingaut, etc.), count in the Avalgau (or, in
French works, "de Gueldres") who is stated variously to have died ca 986,
after 986, or possibly as late as 1000. He married Gerberge, who was
most likely a descendant of Wigrich, count in the Bidgau d. 919, whose
wife Cunegunde was a granddaughter of the Carolingian Louis II of France.
It is unclear, however, whether Gerberge was a daughter of Wigrich's son
Gauzlin/Gozelon, count in the Bidgau d. 942 by Uda f. 953 (?dau. of
Gerhard count in Lorraine d. 910 by Uda, dau. of Otto duke of Saxony and
widow of King Zwentibold), or of Gauzlin's son Gottfrid "the Old," count
of Verdun (d. 1005?) by Matilda daughter of Duke Hermann Billung.
Megingoz/Meingaud and Gerberge had at least three children: Gottfrid, who
died in Bohemia in 977, apparently unmarried and with no known issue;
Adelaide, abbess of Villich; and Ermentrude, who was twice married--first
to Heribert, count in Wetterau (of the Swabian ducal line, with a descent
from the Vermandois) and then to a Bavarian count Ratpoto. By Heribert
Ermentrude had three children--Otto "of Hammerstein" (d. 1036), Gerberge
who married Henry of Schweinfurt (d. 1017) and an anonymous daughter who
married Count Frederic I of Luxembourg (d. 1019). From this last marriage
descended as well the counts of Flanders (including Matilda, William the
Conqueror's wife) and the counts of Salm. So Megingoz/Meingaut is on a
good many pedigrees.
My questions revolve around his ancestry. According to Vandekindere, he
was descended from a Meingaut, count in the Wormsgau d. 892 (m. Gisela,
who survived him). This couple were the parents of another Meingaut, also
count in the Wormsgau d. ca 905. Vandekindere's reasoning from this point
is, shall we say, somewhat flexible. It is known from reliable sources
that the children of the Megingoz/Meingaut with whom I'm concerned (d. 986
or later) and the children of Wichmann, count in Hamaland (d. 983) were
*consanguinei*. Vandekindere takes this to mean that Wichmann and "our"
Megingoz were brothers, and since we know that Wichmann was the son of a
Gerberge, dau. of Meginhard *dux* in Frisia d. 898, Vandekindere assumes
that Gerberge was also the mother of "our" Megingoz/Meingaut. QED. But
it doesn't give us the name of Megingoz and Wichmann's father--and in fact
Vandekindere even goes so far as to suggest on chronological grounds that
Wichmann and Megingoz might have been GRANDSONS of the Meingaut who d. 905
and the Gerberge, dau. of Meginhard d. 898. Chronologically speaking, I'd
think this suggestion is well-advised, but Vandekindere gives no data for
the possible intervening generation.
Certainly we have counts named Megingoz/Meingaut as early as the late 8th
century; the first of whom I have note, who fl. 780-83, was a brother of
Charlemagne's third wife Queen Hildegarde, mother of Louis the Pious. Chaume's
*Origines du duche de Bourgogne* then suggests that one Witichinus or Guiguin,
count in the Saosnais d. 844, married a niece of Queen Hildegarde, a dau.
of the queen's brother Gerold, prefect in Bavaria. Guiguin and his unnamed
wife had, according to Chaume, a son Meingaud, count in the Wormsgau fl.
862-81, possibly m. a dau of Conrad I count of Auxerre. This couple had
two sons, of whom Walaho was count in the Wormsgau ca 892 and m. a sister
of Robert the Strong d. 866 (ancestor of the Capetians).
Some suggest that Maingaud, count in the Wormsgau d. 892 was a son of Walaho
and Robert the Strong's sister. Others, however, contend that Maingaud and
Walaho were successive husbands of the same woman. I do assume that the
Maingaud, count in the Wormsgau d ca 905 was the son of the Maingaud who d.
892, but whether the mother was Robert the Strong's sister or some other wife
of Maingaud d. 892 is unclear.
And there remains the problem of the intervening generation Vandekindere
thought might have been there.
Any help will be gratefully appreciated.
John Parsons
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