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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-10 > 0940164871


From: Kay Allen AG < >
Subject: Re: Stafford
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 05:54:31 -0700


Comments interspersed. Apologies for the length!
Kay Allen AG

Alan B. Wilson wrote:
>
> I have tried to put the Stafford descents recently posted by Kay
> Allen and Robert O'Connor together with what I had in my files.
>
> I notice that Kay Allen included and extra William Stafford in the
> ancestry of John Stafford (not included by O'Connor). Kay also list as
> her #50 Sibyl Marshall rather than Sibyl Broase. This seems unlikely as
> the seven daughters of Sibyl Marshall and their husbands are spelled out
> in detail in CP iv, 199. They do not include a Pernell Ferrers. Also
> Sanders says Pernel is dau. of William, Earl of Derby, d. 1190. This
> William Ferrers m. Sibyl Braose.

You are, of course, correct. I connected Pernell to the wrong William
and Sibyl. Thanks for catching this for me!
>
> My composite reconstruction follows. I'd welcome correction. What a
> tangled web they wove!

If by they, you meant Robert and I, not guilty! Blame the Staffords for
their "blithering idiot factor" (term of Mrs. E. Stratton, referring to
series of cousin marriages). Hopefully, there are plenty of
dispensations floating around!
>
> First Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 1 Ralph de STAFFORD.[74, 55:34] Ralph died on 1 Mar 1410.[74, +]
>
> Ralph married Maud de HASTANG.

Younger son. Maud was a Hastang co-heiress.
>
> Second Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 2 Sir John de STAFFORD.[561],[74, See 55:33],[562, #1]
>
> 3 Margaret de STAFFORD.[561],[74, 55:33]

Does anyone know for sure if this couple had a dtr. who married a
Trussell?

Acc. Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1917/18:76, he was b. c.1302. Md. Margaret
1337. John was a MP frp Staffs. 1339.
>
> Third Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 4 Sir William de STAFFORD.[561],[74, See 55:33],[562, #2] William died ca
> 1318.[562, +] Lived at: Bramshall.[562]

CHS 1917/8 as cited above gives his death date as 1320. He died vp. Also
cite Coll. Hist Staffs. 1917/8:11. Also cite Coll. Hist. Staffs. IX:i:20
for the marriage with Isabel and her ancestry.
>
> 5 Isabella de STAFFORD.[561],[562, #3] Lived at: Anslow.[562]
>
> 6 Ralph de STAFFORD Earl of Stafford.[74, 55:32],[353, p. 81],[561],[75,
> 136:6],[41, xi, 89-123],[368, "Audley] Born on 24 Sep 1301.[368, *],[74,
> *] Ralph died in Tunbridge Castle on 31 Aug 1372; he was 70.[74, +]
> Occupation: Baron of Tunsbridge; Earl of Stafford.[74] More: Steward of
> the Royal Household; Seneschal of Aquitaine.[74]
>
> ca 1326/1327 Ralph married Katherine HASTANG[561].[74, =]
>
> 7 Katherine HASTANG.[561]

I would appreciate a proper sorting of the dtrs. of Ralph Stafford.
Morris gives Katherine as the mother of Joan/Johanna, wife of Sir
Nicholas Beke, but not of Margaret; he gives Margaret Audley the dtrs.
Beatrice, another Joan, Elizabeth, and Margaret. Another source makes
Margaret dtr. of Katherine. Who is Margaret's mother?
>
> Fourth Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 8 William de STAFFORD.[561],[562, #4] Born ca 1255.[562] William died aft
> 1339.[562, +] Lived at: Sandon & Bramshall (Staffs).[561]
>
> 9 Cecily WAURE.[562, #5] Lived at: Amblecote (Staffs).[562]

Cite Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1917/8:10.
>
> 10 Robert de STAFFORD.[562, #6] Robert died in 1303.[562, +]
>
> 11 Gundrada de STAFFORD.[562, #7] Lived at: Anslow.[562] D. in 1310.They had 7 dtrs. and co-heiresses.

Cite Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1933:ii:134-5 for 9 & 10.

Edited for length.
>
>
> Fifth Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 16 William de STAFFORD.[561],[562, #8 & #14] Born ca 1225.[562, *] William
> died ca 1258.[562, +]

Md. after 1253. Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1933:ii:135.
>
> 17 (Auda) de VERNON.[561],[562, #9] Born ca 1225.[561, *]

Co-heiress of Warin de Vernon of Sandon.
>
> 18 Robert WAURE.[562, #10] Lived at: Amblecote (Staffs).[562]

>
> 22 same as number 16
>
> 23 Ermentrude FitzWALKELIN.[562, #15] Ermentrude died ca 1253.[562, +]

Cite Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1933:ii:134-5.
>

> Sixth Generation
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> 32 William de STAFFORD.[562, #28] Born ca 1195.[562, *] William died ca
> 1240.[562, +] Lived at: Bramshall.

Coll. Hist. Staffs. 1933:ii:135 says not son of Milicent. However, Coll.
Hist. Staffs. 1917/18 says that he is a younger brother of the whole
blood to Hervey son of Hervey. Neither citation refers back to a source,
so they seem to be unsupported, at the moment. Does anyone have anything
which is more concret on this issue?
>
> 34 Warine de VERNON Lord of Shipbrook.[561]
>
> 35 Mary de ANDEVILLE.[561]

This is new to me! I will check Robert's citation.
> Edited for space.

>
> 46 Robert FitzWALKELIN.[562, #30] Born ca 1185.[562, *] Robert died in
> 1220.[562, +]
>
> 47 Aline.[562, #31]

Edited for space.
Sources
>
> 41. Cokayne, George Edward, 1825-1911, Vicary Gibbs (ed.), The complete
> peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, and the United Kingdon, London: The
> St. Catherine Press, ltd., 1910-1959. 13 v. in 14.
> 74. Weis, Frederick Lewis, Ancestral roots of certain American colonists
> who came to America before 1700; 7th ed., with additions and correctiuons
> by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. ; assisted by David Faris, Baltimore, MD:
> Genealogical Publishing Co., 1992.
> 75. Weis, Frederick Lewis, The Magna Charta Surities, 1215, 4th ed., with
> additions and corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., with David Faris,
> Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1991.
> 82. Call, Michel L., Royal Ancestors of Some American Families ; Pedigree
> Charts., Printed by the author, 1991.
> 83. Call, Michel L., Royal Ancestors of Some American Families: Family
> Group Sheets, Reproduced by the author, 1991.
> 233. Schwennicke, Detlev (ed.), Europaische Stammtafeln : Stammtafeln zur
> Geschichte der europaischen Staaten / begrundet von Wilhelm Karl Prinz zu
> Isenburg ; fortgefuhrt von Frank Baron Freytag von Loringhoven ; neue
> Folge herausgegeben von...., Marburg: Stargardt, 1978-<1995 >.
> 353. Sanders, I. J., English Baronies: a study of their origin and
> descent, 1086-1327, Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1960.
> 368. Faris, David, Plantagenet ancestry of seventeenth-century colonists,
> Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishers, 1996.
> 420. Meisel, Janet, Barons of the Welsh Frontier: The Corbet, Pantulf,
> and Fitz Warin Families, 1066-1272, Lincoln: University of Nebraska
> Press, 1980.
> 455. Burke, Sir Bernard, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages
> of the British Empire, Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996.
> Reprinted from edition originally published in London by Burke's Peerage, 1883.
> 561. O'Connor, Robert, "Re: Stafford," soc.genealogy.medieval, 17 Oct 1999.
> 562. Allen, Kay, "Staffords (two parts)," soc.genealogy.medieval, 16 Oct 1999.
>
> --
> Alan B. Wilson
>

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