GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-11 > 1100864948


From: Peter Stewart < >
Subject: Re: Boso de Périgord's wife
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:49:08 GMT
References: <00859b47dd0988a488ca9f46e2de923e@localhost.talkabouteducation.com> <eZSmd.39806$K7.29179@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <7a7f267ce627f7d60f86702cff8efbf6@localhost.talkabouteducation.com> <At8nd.41261$K7.38799@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <6a80729553c1009b2198f2030582ba34@localhost.talkabouteducation.com>
In-Reply-To: <6a80729553c1009b2198f2030582ba34@localhost.talkabouteducation.com>


JBernigaud wrote:
> Thank you again for this very interesting explanation. In fact,I think I'm
> going to study the sources about Charles Constantin's family, in order to
> establish his different and most probable descendants. Do you know any
> source or work about that subject?

It should first be remembered that definite proof of his maternity is
lacking. His father was certainly Emperor Louis the Blind, but Charles
Constantin was not able to inherit Provence from him or rights to
imperial succession, and becomae only count (or prince) of Vienne. His
legitimacy is usually accepted, although this was specifically denied by
Richer.

For all we know his possession of Vienne may be an indicator of his
mother's local origin & family rights - the name Constancius was not
uncommon there in the 10th century, and Constantinus also occurs: the
latter may have been in his case just a less usual variant of the
former. It should be emphasised that among his alleged descendants
through Queen Constance the form is "Constancia", not "Constantina"; and
the name for some reason never crossed back over the gender divide, in
spite of her own son's choice of an exotic Greek name for his heir
Philippe when the purportedly ancestral Constantine might have served
his needs at least as well.

Ulysse Chevalier's edition of _Cartulaire de l'abbaye de
Saint-André-le-Bas...suivi d'un appendice de chartes inédites sur le
diocèse de Vienne (IXe-XIIe siècles)_ (Lyons, 1869) contains several
different men of this name, including a few contemporaries who could not
possibly have been descendants of the Macedonian dynasty. If he was not
the son of the Greek princess Anna, Charles Constantin's mother (and or
Queen Constance's paternal grandmother for that matter) might have been
related to one or more of them.

Charles Constantin himself was married to a woman named Teutberga, who
occurs with him and two sons in a charter of ca 960. These boys were his
only recorded offspring, named Richard and Hugobert. They both disappear
from the record within a decade or so, and we don't know that either of
them reached adulthood or left descendants.

Attempts have been made to connect the house of Savoy to Richard, but
this is merely wishful guesswork.

The popularity of the supposed Byzantine ancestry of Charles Constantin
through his mother derives mainly from an article about him by Charles
Previté-Orton in _English Historical Review_ 29 (1914), and more lately
from the theories of Christian Settipani which you have noted.

Peter Stewart


This thread: