GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-08 > 1060568149


From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: Ellen, wife of Donald, Earl of Mar (was Re: King's kinsfolk)
Date: 10 Aug 2003 19:15:49 -0700
References: <10e.24de2d93.2c656b83@aol.com> <5cf47a19.0308090941.2bd24ae6@posting.google.com> <nathanieltaylor-8008D9.13560209082003@news02.east.earthlink.net>


Dear Nat ~

Andrew MacEwen of Maine doesn't believe that Ellen, the surviving wife
of Malcolm, 7th Earl of Fife, to be the same wife he had back in the
1230's. The reason for this is simple. After Malcolm's death in
1266, Ellen married (2nd) Donald, Earl of Mar, and had five children.
If correct, Ellen would have been born no earlier than 1235. If so,
she could not possibly be Malcolm's wife who is named in the 1237
reference I cited. On the other hand, we know that Llywelyn had a
daughter, Susanna, who was living in 1228 in England. She would
easily fit the chronology to be Malcolm's 1st wife in 1237.

If you wish to pursue this matter further, I suggest you contact
Andrew MacEwen directly. He is the resident expert on all things
Scottish.

Best always, Douglas Richardson

P.S. I like your website, by the way.


Nathaniel Taylor < > wrote in message news:< >...
> In article < >,
> (Douglas Richardson) wrote:
>
> > Dear John ~
> >
> > You have have correctly identified King Robert II's great-grandmother
> > as Ellen, wife of Donald, Earl of Mar (died 1297). This Ellen is
> > known to have been previously married to Malcolm, 7th Earl of Fife
> > (died 1266). Most sources state that Ellen was the daughter of
> > Llywelyn, Prince of North Wales.
> >
> > It appears, however, that Malcolm, 7th Earl of Fife, actually had two
> > marriages, not one as usually supposed. He married first about 1230
> > and certainly before 1237 to an unknown daughter of Llywelyn, Prince
> > of North Wales. This first wife was evidently the mother of Malcolm's
> > two sons, Colban [8th Earl of Fife] and Macduff [References: J.
> > Stephenson, Chronica de Mailros [Chronicle of Melrose] (1835): 142
> > (wife of Malcolm, 7th Earl of Fife, identified as daughter of
> > Llywelyn, Prince of North Wales; C. Innes, Carte Monialium de
> > Northberwic (1847): 16-17 (document dated 6 July 1237 mentions
> > "Maurice, servant of the Countess of Fife")].
> >
> > Following the death of Malcolm's first wife, he married (2nd) Ellen
> > _____, evidently a much younger woman. She survived him at his death
> > in 1266, and married (2nd) Donald, Earl of Mar, by whom she had five
> > children. Ellen was still living in 1295 [References: J. Balfour,
> > Scots Peerage 4 (1907): 9-10 (sub Fife); 5 (1908): 577-578 (sub Mar)].
> >
> > Andrew MacEwen of Maine suspects that Malcolm, Earl of Fife's first
> > wife was Susanna, a known daughter of Llywelyn, Prince of North Wales,
> > by his wife, Joan of England. Susanna was living unmarried in England
> > in 1228, just before Earl Malcolm married a daughter of Prince
> > Llywelyn. This matter deserves further study.
> >
> > Special thanks go to Andrew MacEwen for generously sharing his
> > thoughts and source material on this matter with me. Andrew is the
> > essence of the expression "gentleman and scholar."
>
> Do the souces cited give positive evidence that the Earl of Fife had two
> different wives, or is the argument for two wives based on the
> chronological difficulty of the same woman bearing children to both men?
>
> Nat Taylor
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/


This thread: