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From: RBodine996< >
Subject: Re: Gateway Ancestor Sir Humphrey Audley
Date: 27 Oct 1999 01:11:40 GMT
Extracted from DejaNews, Douglas Richardson wrote the following on October 05,
1999 5: 15 P.M.
"As for Eleanor's son, Humphrey Tuchet (otherwise Audley), he is known to have
been survived by two children at his death. Ronnie Bodine claims Humphrey had
additional children, including a daughter who married a Sydenham of Somerset.
This may well be true. But, reviewing the evidence, neither Dr. Faris or I
believed it was sufficient at this time to warrant including the
Sydenham-Tuchet connection as set forth by Mr. Bodine. The Sydenham family of
Somerset clearly had a Tuchet marriage in their ancestry. This is proven by an
early Sydenham family
visitation pedigree. Likewise, the arms of the Tuchet and Audley families are
found on an early Sydenham tomb in Somerset. This is good evidence but more is
needed to prove the connection. I anticipate the Sydenham-Tuchet connection
will eventually be sorted out. My gut feeling is that Ronnie Bodine has the
right descent. Just more proof is needed. As for Humphrey Tuchet's claimed
Courtney
marriage, we found no primary evidence whatsoever to support this marriage. We
would like to see some."
The question has been raised as to whether there exists primary evidence to
support a series of marriages and descents that appear to be based upon
secondary evidence. The reluctance by Mr. Richardson and Dr. Faris to accept
this descent is understandable insofar as there is considerable disagreement
among various references. The relationships in question are:
1. Did Sir Philip Courtenay (1404-1463), of Powderham, Devonshire have a
daughter named Elizabeth?
2. If so, did this daughter, Elizabeth Courtenay, marry Sir Humphrey Audley
(c1430-1471)?
3. Was there a daughter of this marriage named Elizabeth?
4. If so, did this daughter, Elizabeth Audley, marry as his 1st wife, John
Sydenham (died 1543), of Brympton, Somerset?
At this time I can reply to the first two questions and provide what I hope is
satisfactory primary evidence to support these claims. I regret I must delay
my response to questions 3 and 4 for another two weeks or so while awaiting the
receipt of additional reference materials.
Sir PHILIP COURTENAY, of Powderham, Devonshire was born 18 Jan 1404 at Ashton
and died 16 Dec 1463 (IPM 3 Edward IV, No. 29). King's Knight, 1439-1445;
Knight of the Shire of Devon, 1455-1456. Married c1426 to Elizabeth, daughter
of Sir Walter Hungerford and Katherine Peverell, who brought her husband the
manor of Molland Botreaux. She died 14 Dec 1476 (IPM 16 Edward IV, No. 77.)
Although there appears to be a consensus as to the identification of the 7 sons
of Sir Philip Courtenay, information on his daughters, even the actual number,
seems contradictory among various accounts of the family. Even the names of
their husbands seem to be freely exchanged among them. None of the peerage
works (Collins, Burke, Paget, Dugdale, etc.) refer to his daughter Elizabeth.
But she certainly did exist. The primary evidence appears in The Register of
Edmund Lacy, Bishop of Exeter, 1420-1455. On 13 Jan 1450/1, at Chudleigh,
Bishop Lacy issued a license addressed to the rector of Powderham, for the
marriage of James Luttrell, esq. and Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Philip
Courtenay, knight, in the chapel of Powderham manor house. The Latin entry
reads "....Elizabetham filiam nobilis viri domini Philippi Courtenay militis
inoratorio sive calella infra manerium de Powderham..."
In so far as the existance of Elizabeth has been confirmed as is her marriage
in 1450/1 to Sir James Luttrell, did she also marry Sir Humphrey Audley? The
evidence for this appears in A History of Dunster and of the Families of Mohun
and Luttrell, by Sir H. C. Maxwell Lyte, K.C.B., The St. Catherine Press:
London, 1909. Sir James Luttrell, who was born 1426/7, died at the battle of
St. Albans 17 Feb 1461 fighting on the side of the Lancastrians for which he
was attainted. Elizabeth, Lady Luttrell, married 2ndly, Sir Humphrey Audley,
and following his death in 1471, married a third time, to Thomas Malet, or
Enmore, Somersetshire. Elizabeth died 1 Sep 1493 and was buried before the
high altar in Dunster Church. Lyte furnishes an illustration of her tomb slab
between pages 130 and 131 of his History of Dunster.
It bears noting here that pages 167-169 are concerned with the marriage of
Thomas Luttrell, a great-grandson of Sir James Luttrell and Elizabeth
Courtenay, to Margaret Hadley, a great-granddaughter of the same Elizabeth, but
by her second husband, Sir Humphrey Audley. Due to their relationship, a
document was issued 28 Nov 1558 by the Cardinal of St. Angelo, Papal
Penitentiary, at St. Peter's in Rome, permitting this marriage, which would
otherwise have been disallowed.
Ronny Bodine
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