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From: "Douglas Richardson " < >
Subject: Evidence re. the identity of Alan Fitz Roland'as first wife, _____ de Lacy
Date: 26 Sep 2005 20:02:26 -0700
References: <9577484.1127777011386.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <9577484.1127777011386.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Here is a discussion of the evidence:

Point One: The manor of Kippax, Yorkshire was owned by Ilbert de Lacy
at the time of the Domesday survey and passed by lineal descent to
Roger de Lacy (died 1211), hereditary Constable of Chester. The said
Roger de Lacy in turn gave it in marriage to his sister, the first wife
of Alan Fitz Roland, lord of Galloway.

Point Two: Over the course of the centuries, the advowson of Kippax,
Yorkshire was granted by Henry de Lacy c. 1160 to Pontefract Abbey.
Henry de Lacy was the great-grand-uncle and antecedant of Roger de
Lacy, Constable of Chester, who died in 1211. A brief extract of Henry
de Lacy's charter is given below:

"To archbishop Roger and all sons of Holy Church, Henry de Lacy,
greeting. Know ... that I have granted and ... confirmed ... to the
monks of Pontefract, the church of Kippax, etc." [Reference: Richard
Holmes, ed. The Chartulary of St. John of Pontefract (Yorkshire Arch.
Soc. Record Series 25) (1899): 31].

Point Three: Following the granting of the manor of Kippax, Yorkshire
to Alan Fitz Roland in marriage with the sister of Roger de Lacy, the
manor passed by inheritance to Alan Fitz Roland's daughter, Ellen, and
her husband, Sir Roger de Quincy. In 1233 there was a dispute about
the advowson of Kippax, Yorkshire which involved Pontefract Priory,
Roger de Quincy and his wife's nephew, John de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln.
Here are brief extracts of the two pertinent documents:

Document #1. Date: 1233. "To the reverand father in Christ, and very
dear lord, W[alter], by the grace of God, archbishop of York, and
primate of England, John de Lascy, earl of Lincoln and constable of
Chester, greeting in the Lord ... We make known to your fatherhood that
having seen the deeds and charters of my father, Roger de Lascy, and of
my ancestors, piously granted by those ancestors to God and St. John
the Evangelist of Pontefract, and to my monks there serving God,
concerning the church of Kippax, the truth has been shown itself to be
other than we believed ... we have remitted to them for ever all the
right and claim that we claimed to have in the said church of Kippax
..." [Reference: Richard Holmes, ed. The Chartulary of St. John of
Pontefract (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Record Series 25) (1899): 39-40].

Document #2. Date: 1233. To all, &c. ... W[alter] ..., archbishop of
York, &c. Know that whereas the contention raised between our dear
sons, the prior and convent of Pontefract, on the one part, and the
noble man, Roger de Quenci, on the other, concerning the last
presentation of the church of Kippax, has been ended by the judgement
of the court of the lord king, we at the presentation of the said prior
and convent who recovered possesion of the patrongae of the said
church, as the lord Henry, the illustrious king of England, has
signified to us by his letter .." [Reference: Richard Holmes, ed. The
Chartulary of St. John of Pontefract (Yorkshire Arch. Soc. Record
Series 25) (1899): 74-75].

Point Four: The manor and advowson of Kippax, Yorkshire were
subsequently exchanged in 1254 by Roger de Quincy, Earl of Winchester,
with Edmund de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln, for other property in cos.
Northampton, Nottingham, and Yorkshire [Reference: John Parker ed. Feet
of Fines for the County of York from 1246 to 1272 (Yorkshire Arch. Soc.
Record Series 82) (1932): 193; see also Sir Christopher Hatton's Book
of Seals (1950): 288-289].

Point Five: The defendant in the 1214 lawsuit regarding the manor of
Kippax, Yorkshire was John de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln, not an
unidentified John of Chester. This identification is confirmed by John
de Lacy's subsequent release of the advowson of Kippax, Yorkshire as
stated above. He is called "John of Chester" in the 1214 lawsuit,
which was his style at the time. An example of this style can be found
in the Pipe Roll for the same year, 1214. An abstract of this record
reads as follows:

Date: Michaelmas 1214. Sub Yorkshire.
"Johannes de Cestr' r.c. de MM et DCCC li. pro habendis terris que
fuerunt patris sui . sicut continetur ibidem. In thes. Nichil."
[Reference: Patricia M. Barnes ed. The Great Roll of the Pipe for the
Sixteenth Year of the Reign of King John, Michaelmas 1214 (Pipe Roll
Soc. n.s. 35) (1962): 93].

Point Six: Richard de Crevecour was the attorney of Alan Fitz Roland,
lord of Galloway, in 1214. It can not be construed in any way he was
the father of the defendant, John de Lacy.

Point Seven: I find no evidence that Richard de Crevecour or his family
ever owned the advowson and manor of Kippax, Yorkshire. Instead, as
shown above, the manor and the advowson were held by the Lacy family,
until this property was granted in marriage by Roger de Lacy to his
sister, the wife of Alan Fitz Roland. The manor of Kippax afterwards
passed as stated above by inheritance to Alan Fitz Roland's daughter,
Ellen, wife of Sir Roger de Quincy.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net


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