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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-01 > 0917023344


From: Richard Borthwick< >
Subject: Re: Chatillon ancestry
Date: 22 Jan 1999 08:42:24 -0800


At 06:51 PM 21/01/99 GMT, you wrote:
>From: (John Carmi Parsons)
>Date: 21 Jan 1999 10:51:42 -0800
>Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
>Reply-To: John Carmi Parsons < >
>X-Complaints-To:
>Nntp-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 1999 18:51:42 GMT
>
>As I feared, I don't have very much on the ancestry of Renaud of Chatillon
>but for what it's worth:
>
>Milon I, lord of Chatillon, fl. to ca 1050 = NF
>Gui I, lord of Chatillon, fl. 1076 = Ermengarde "de Choisy" (no parents)
>Gauthier I, fl. or d ca 1096 = NF
>Henry I, fl. 1130 = Ermengarde "de Montjai" (no parents named)
>Renaud (yr son) = Constance, *suo jure* princess of Antioch
>Anne = Bela III, king of Hungary
>
>Renaud's elder brother Gauthier II (d. 1147) = Ada de Rouci
>Gui II, fl. 1170 = Alix, dau. of Robert I Ct of Dreux
>Gauthier de Chatillon III (d. 1219) = Elisabeth, dame de St-Pol (d. 1233)
>Hugh de Chatillon-St Pol (d. 1248) = Marie d'Avesnes, *suo jure* countess
>of Blois (d. 1241)
>Guy (yr son, d. 1289) = Mathilde of Brabant
>Gui (yr son, of Chatillon-St Pol, d. 1317) = Marie of Brittany
>John of Chatillon-St-Pol, d. before 1344 = Jeanne de Fiennes
>Mahaut, hss of Chatillon-St-Pol = (1350) Guy of Luxembourg, Ct of Ligny
>
>The above is taken from Anselme and from Stokvis, who essentially repeats
what
>Anselme already said.
>
>John Parsons
>
> __
>| Internet:
>| Fidonet: John Carmi Parsons 1:143/1001
>|
>| A service of the San Jose IBM PC Club, running OS/2 Warp
>
ES VII:17 also follows Anselme, but the correction is made in ES III/1:154.
Reynald belonged to the family of Chatillon-sur-Loing and not
Chatillon-sur-Marne. In the latter reference he is said to be the son of
Geoffroy lord of C-s-L. The article by S Schein in *Lexikon des
Mittelalters* VII:416-417 claims him to be to be the brother of Geoffroy
and son of Herve II lord of Donzy. Runciman *History of the Crusades*
(penguin edition) vol.2, p.345 identifies him as the younger son of
Geoffroy count of Gien and lord of C-s-M. Bouchard *Sword, Miter and
Cloister* (Ithaca/London, 1987), p.327 does not mention our Reynald but she
points out that Geoffroy II lord of Donzy and count of Chalon appears in a
charter of 1086 with a "nepos" Raynald son of Robert de Chatillon and that
this Reynald had a son Narjod. Bouchard says "It seems most likely that
Robert of Chatillon was the brother of Geoffrey II's unnamed wife, or
perhaps a relative of Savaric of Vergy." (Savaric was Geoffroy II's
maternal uncle.) The name 'Reynald' occurs several times in the family of
Donzy and it may have passed from that family to that of Chatillon. Our
Reynald died in 1187, and according to ES III/3:435 Geoffroy II d.1111, his
son Herve II d.1120 and his grandson Geoffroy III d.1157. It would seem
that Reynald was rather more remote than the various speculations for
affiliation suggest. My guess (and it is only that) is that he was a
grandson or great grandson of Robert of Chatillon.

The family tree for Donzy in Bouchard is markedly different to that given
in ES.

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