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From: "John P. Ravilious" < >
Subject: 3rd wife of Alan of Galloway (was: 1st wife of Alan ......)
Date: 29 Sep 2005 21:04:35 -0700
References: <19e.3cdc6ea1.306c8460@aol.com> <1127951560.694636.183490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1127954305.708092.178790@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <dhgaj4$kvm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <dhgmh8$vih$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <1128014499.728448.133340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <dhhet1$gjt$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <dhhet1$gjt$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Dear Chris, Peter, Michael, Douglas, et al.,
Following is the text concerning Alan of Galloway's 3rd marriage,
dated 30 March 1222. As opposed to what little detail we usually find
in either a supplication to the Holy See or a dispensation, this does
not specify any relationship between Alan and his wife (it also does
not name his wife), but refers to the problem as involving both
consanguinity and affinity ["consanguinitatis et affinitatis "].
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers,
John
XLVIII.
Iudicibus, ut causam matrimonii Alani comestabularii regni
Scotiae audiant. Reg. An. VI. epist. 331.
HONORIUS EPISCOPUS etc. Venerabilibus fratribus .... Eboracensi
Archiepiscopo et .... Karleolensi et .... Oxonensi Episcopis, salutem
etc. Olim dilectus filius frater Iacobus capellanus et penitentiarius
noster, tunc apostolice sedis legatus, et Ep'i quamplures Regni
Scotie suis nobis litteris intimarunt, quod nobilis vir Alanus
Comestabularius Regni eiusdem eo gradu consanguinitatis et affinitatis
sue attineret uxori, quod sine mortali peccato illi non posset
carnaliter commisceri. Idem quoque legatus, quid esset in huiusmodi
causa facturus, per suas nos duxit litteras consulendos. Quare moti ex
hiis pariter et inducti legato ipsi scripsimus, ut predicti Regni
convocatis Ep'is, quos crederet evocandos, communicato quoque illorum
et aliorum prudentum consilio, si constaret eidem computatis canonice
gradibus et distinctis, quod predicti vir et uxor in gradu sibi
prohibito attinerent, super hoc faceret, prout secundum deum
prospiceret expedire. Sane cum procurator ipsius nobilis cum obtentis
a nobis super hoc litteris remearet, quoniam ad legatum eundem
applicuit, cum in itinere foret ad nostram presentiam redeundi, ad nos
infecto negotio iterum est reversus, suppliciter postulans et humiliter
ac instanter exposcens, ut ne sustinuisset in vacuum tot labores,
negotium ipsum viris decretis committere dignaremur. Nos autem licet
favore matrimonii hac sicut alia vice difficiles aliquandiu fuissemus,
ne tamen negaremus iustitiam, in qua sumus omnibus debitores, et quam
fieri super hoc procurator ipse attentius postulabat, fraternitati
vestre in virtute obedientie districte precipiendo mandamus, quatenus
habituri pre oculis solum deum, et reddituri de hoc in die districti
examinis rationem, convocatis episcopis et aliis viris honestis, quos
videritis evocandos, audiatis causam, in qua cum omni circumspectione
ac diligentia processuri, nichil unquam de contingentibus omittendo, ut
circumveniri et tandem redargui non possitis. Cum huiusmodi factum ex
causis quibusdam, quas audivimus, non valeamus non habere suspectum,
cum ea, qua decet, maturitate consilii, appellatione postposita,
faciatis, quod secundum deum et animarum salutem fuerit faciendum.
Quod si non omnes hiis exequendis potueritis interesse, tu ea, frater
archiep'e, cum eorum altero etc. Datum Anagnie III. Kal. Aprilis,
Pontificatus nostri anno sexto. ' [1]
NOTES
[1] Augustinus Theiner, ed. Vetera Monumenta Hibernorum et Scotorum
(Osnabruck: Otto Zeller, 1969), pp. 20-21.
Chris Phillips wrote:
> John P. Ravilious wrote:
> > The possibility that William 'II' may have been the son of William
> > 'I' by Gundreda should be reviewed in light of this additional claim.
> > It does seem, to me at least, that William 'I' was married to Gundreda
> > 'the countess' and not her daughter. Besides the complicated marital
> > history of the daughter, Gundreda de Newburgh [1], the fact that the
> > witnesses to the charter you cite included "Willelmo filio meo et
> > herede, Gundrea filia comitisse " would seem quite strange. William
> > 'II' is identified as 'my son and heir', so (A) why would the wife of
> > William 'I' be named after him? Also, (B) why would the charter not
> > name her as 'my wife' in addition to calling her 'daughter of the
> > countess', if this was one and the same individual?
>
>
> I don't think it's so strange that his wife should appear after his son. She
> does so in the consent clause, after all, and if the property in question
> was inheritable the son's interest could be viewed as more material than the
> wife's.
<<<<<<<<<<< SNIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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