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From: G . EDWARD ALLEN< >
Subject: Re: Sir Richard de Cornwall & the Howards?
Date: 15 Jan 1999 18:54:50 -0800


This is what I have from The House od Cornwall. Amore complete citation
with authorship should be found in the archives. Sorry
, I don't havbe it to hand.

1. Joan Cornawall.
2. Richard Cornwall; d. after 1296.
3. Joan FitzAlan.
4. Richard, Earl of Cornwall.
6. John FitzAlan; b. 14 Srpt. 1246; d. 18 Mar. 1271/72.
7. Isabel Mortimer.

All the arguments are in the book. Joan has two brothers, Sir Edmund
and Sir Geoffrey. These are the founders of Cornwall of Burford and
Cornwall of Kinlet.

Kay Allen AG

Cristopher Nash wrote:
>
> Seeing discussion of children of Richard, E of Cornwall, I can't resist
> asking for advice on a problem I've long meant to get to concerning another
> purported descent of his. There'll appear to be resonances here of past
> discussions of Valletort/Champernowne and related families, but my
> suspicion (as'll be seen below) is that they'll be superficial and will
> soon subside.
>
> There is what I can only - for lack of adequate research on my own part -
> call 'lore' (e.g. among American descendants of the Howards of Norfolk)
> that Sir John Howard (s. of Sir William Howard and Alice Fitton) m. "Joan,
> sister of Richard de Cornwall" - implying either [Sir] Richard de Cornwall
> (evidently holding land in Burford [Salop] and Benington [Herts]), the
> illegitimate son of Richard E of Cornwall, or Richard the son of the
> latter. This 'Joan' is called the mother of Sir John Howard who m. Alice de
> Bosco [Bois].
>
> Those here involved in Howard (and/or Champernowne) research may well have
> a ready answer to this query - i.e. can all/any of this be positively
> dismissed or verified, and if the latter, are details available concerning
> Joan's mother?
>
> I note that "Joan, possibly an illegitimate daughter of Richard
> (Plantagenet) [Richard, E of Cornwall]...by Joan de Vautort or Valletort"
> m. Richard de Champernowne -- per Gary Boyd Roberts in _Nexus_ Vol XIII,
> Nos. 3 & 4 (1996), p 129, giving Addits & Corrects to p 317 of his _Royal
> Descs of 500 Immigrants_.
>
> On chronological grounds it seems to me unlikely that -- Champernownes/
> Valletorts/Oketons et al. aside -- a Joan m. to Sir John Howard s. of Sir
> William Howard and Alice Fitton could be a da. of Richard, E of Cornwall's
> illegitimate son Richard, but she -- if she exists -- might be da. of Sir
> Richard of Cornwall of Shelswell, Oxon, called 'the king's clerk and
> cousin' in 1327; knighted 1338, still holds manor of Shelswell in 1346.
>
> Fading and analytically frail biographies of Richard E of Cornwall like
> Denholm-Young's and TWE Roche's are admirably, predictably and probably
> justifiably silent on the subject.
>
> Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
>
> Cris
>
> Note also

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