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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-05 > 0862782580


From: "Todd A. Farmerie" < >
Subject: Re: GRIFFITHS and VERNON
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:49:40 -0400


I will take three steps in addressing the question of the
GRIFFITH/VERNON connection, which also has relevance to the continuing
GRIFFITH descent. First, the common secondary sources:

Weis/Sheppard says that Richard Vernon married Joan, daughter of Richard
Stackpole, but then begins a note on the relationship with a statement
that Shaw proves that Joan was daughter of Rhys ap Griffith.

Bartrum, under a portion of his Marchudd descent shows:

Sir Rhys ap Griffith m.1) Joan de Somerville, m2) Isabelle Stakepole

by 2) he had:

Rhys ap Griffith m.1) Margaret Zouche, m2) ? dau. Rhys LLwyd

and had with others):

Thomas (who I think he shows as son of 1), and Jonet, wife of Richard
Vernon, dau. of either 1) or 2).

Note that this would remove the Somerville descent, since Rhys the
younger is not her son.

Now for the primary documentation.

First for the paternity of Joan, wife of Richard Vernon.

The Historical Manuscript Commission Rutland vol. shows a marriage
agreement dated to 1380, in which Julianne, Madame de Vernon, and Rees
ap Gruffyth, agree to the marriage of her son Richard to his daughter
Joan. This proves that she was daughter of Griffith, and not of
Stackpole. (the date of this agreement is after the death of Rhys the
older, so the father must be the younger.

The monumental brass of Sir William Vernon, d. 1467, and widow Margaret,
includes the arms (arg. a lion ramp. gu., collared and crowned or) of
Stacpole, showing that at least 87 years later the family claimed a
descent from Stackpole.

The inq. post mortem for Laurence Berkrolls, knt. describes his
acquisition as son of a sister and coheir of Richard Turburville. One
of the other representatives of this claim was Isabelle, daughter of
Richard Stakepole, son of Margaret, another sister of Turburville.
Later, in describing Laurence's heirs, it names one as Joan, wife of
Richard Vernon Knt. heiress of Isabelle, daughter of said Richard
Stakepole. This has been read to claim Joan was daughter of Richard,
but if so, Isabelle would not have been sole heiress of her share when
Laurence inherited the claim. Instead, it should be read as Joan is
heiress of Isabelle, which Isabelle was daughter of Richard Stakepole.
Thus Joan was sole heiress of Isabelle Stakepole.

Nichols' Leycestershire includes some quotes of primary data. In one,
Lady Margaret, widow of Resi ap Griffith, and Thomas, son and heir of
Resi and Margaret grant a deed. He also cites the heraldic glass of
Wichnor chancel, which shows the arms (in order) of Zouche, Griffith
quartering Somerville, and Stackpole, and an inscription of Dame Isabele
Stakp... and Res ap Gryfyt Chevaler. This suggests that Rhys the heir
of Griffith and Somerville married twice, to Isabelle Stackpole and to
Margaret Zouche.

Finally, the ipm of Rees ap Griffitz (1 Feb., 6 Rich II, and subseq.)
places his death 25 May 3 Rich. II, and names Thomas, son and heir aged
5 on 19 May last (as of 1 Aug. 7RicII). While the ipm of Joan, late
wife of Rees ap Griffitz reports she died 8 Oct., 1 Rich. II, and that
her son and heir was Rees ap Griffitz, aged 40 and more, inheriting
numerous Somerville lands including Wichenore. This shows Rees (the
younger) to have been son of Joan (Somerville).

>From this data, we can conclude that:

Sir Rhys ap Griffith married Joan Somerville, and by her had son and
heir:

Rhys ap Griffith, who married first Isabelle Stackpole, and second
Margaret Zouche, having:

by 1) a sole daughter and heiress, Joan, wife of Richard Vernon, and by
2) son and heir Thomas.

I will save the information on the Welsh descent and the connection to
the Tudors for a later post.

ta

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