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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-10 > 0814494340


From: Chris Bennett < >
Subject: Annotated Egyptian Descent Part 1 of 4
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:25:40 PST


This is a long mailing. In order not to blow people's mail buffers I have
split it into four parts.

As I munch through the archives on this group, which has many fascinating
discussions (great thread on Rollo), I found the postings from Rik Vigeland on
descents from Egypt last July. Although there was some discussion on some of
the medieval connections in the list, there was none on the Egyptian portion.
Since I have been researching this area, particularly the earliest part, in
some depth for the last couple of years (and since descents from antiquity are
allowed as a subject of discussion), I thought it was worth reviving the thread
and annotating the Egyptian part of the genealogy to indicate the various weak
points in it.

First, some general comments. As Rik notes, the source of this genealogy is
the Descents From Antiquity (DfA) charts, issued by the Augustan Society in
Torrance CA in 1986. Unfortunately, the Augustans never got around to issuing
the bibliography, nor the justifications for the links. I believe they are in
the course of revising these charts. I hope that the bibliographical section
will make it into print this time. Also, many of the links shown are given as
uncertain in the Augustan charts, and many of the links which are shown as
certain in the Augustan charts are not so.

A slightly different descent is given in Settipani's book on descents from
antiquity, "Nos ancetres de l'antiquite" (Paris, 1991). This "only" goes back
as far as Ramses II. However, it is a much better starting point, because it
comes with a solid and up-to-date bibliography (as of about 1989/90 - its a
fluid field) and with carefully presented arguments. Moreover, Settipani
carefully presents his book as "a study of possibilities" -- it is very
misleading to suggest that these ancestries are established.

The major focus of my own research has been on the 17th dynasty and the second
intermediate period. The result has been a series of notes which are now being
published in alternate issues of the Egyptological discussion journal
"Gottinger Miszellen". A summary is published in the current issue of the
Augustan Society's Journal of Ancient and Medieval History (JAMS), which was
due September, though I haven't seen it yet. Because of this, I am able to
propose possibilities for extension of the far end of this descent back to the
beginning of the 13th dynasty -- an additional 250 years or so.

Credentials: I have no formal Egyptological training. However, I have had the
opportunity to present and discuss my ideas with some respected experts in the
field. The reaction to date has been to regard my ideas as interesting and
worth serious consideration, perhaps a little too speculative, but at least as
plausible as anyone else's, although the period is still too little known for
anyone to draw definitive conclusions. I hope I'll get more considered
reactions in time; I've no doubt this is not the last word! One suggestion, on
Thutmosis I (see below), has been very well received.

As for the general question of possible descents from ancient Egypt, I have
come to two basic conclusions:

1) The good news is that the Egyptian upper classes did interbreed closely, and
they did record extensive genealogical information. Even if this ancestry is
not correct in some detail (or even most details) there very probably was
something like it, and it is not unreasonable to hope that one day it will be
possible to document it.

2) The bad news is that the Egyptian upper classes were not very exogamous, so
there are extremely few opportunities for tracing descents into non-Egyptian
societies. The chances of there being a descent from the pharaohs into later
ancient society are not at all good. More on this later.

Finally, I have not commented on questions of chronology, which is a subject of
intense debate, but most of these dates should only be regarded as accurate to
within a decade or two.

REFERENCES:

This is an initial reading list rather than a detailed set of references for
the above. If anyone wants information on a particular point, feel free to
mail me.

General: W. Helck & W. Westendorf (eds): Lexikon der Agyptologie, Wiesbaden

Dynasties 13-17: J. von Beckerath, Untersuchungen zur politischen Geschichte
der Zweiten Zwischenzeit in Agypten, Gluckstadt 1964.

Dynasties 18-20: J. E. Harris & E. F. Wente, An X-Ray Atlas of the Royal
Mummies, Chicago 1980.

Dynasties 21-25: K. A. Kitchen, The Third Intermediate Period in Egypt, 2nd
edition, Warminster 1986.

The major academic journals, with standard abbreviations, are:

BIFAO: Bulletin de l'institut francais d'archeologie orientale
CdE: Chronique d'Egypte
GM: Gottinger Miszellen
JEA: Journal of Egyptian Archaeology
MDAIK: Mitteilungen des deutschen archa.olgischen Instituts Abteiling Kairo
RdE: Revue d'Egyptologie
SAK: Studien zur altagyptischen Kultur
ZAS: Zeitschrift fur Agyptische Sprache under Altertumskunde

There is lots of information in other, more obscure, journals, and in
festschrifts and other special publications.

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