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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1996-11 > 0848943316


From: ic < >
Subject: Re: Oda de Paris or von Sachsen ?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 17:35:16 +0000
In-Reply-To: <57a53m$qa4@boursy.news.erols.com>


On 24 Nov 1996, William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:

> Alexander Agamov < > wrote:
>
> >In my datebase Oda de Paris was daughter of Eudes I king of France and
> >Theodorada(?). She was married Zenthibold, king of Lorrain (870,
> >king since 895, was killed 13 Aug 900). But according to another sources
> >she might be daughter of duke Otto(n) (Udo) v. Sachsen (ab.840, king of
> >Germany since 912, died 30 Nov 912) and Hedwige v. Frioul (died 24 Dec
> >903). > >What information is wrong ?
>
> Beats me. Schwennicke's *Europaeische Stammtafeln* is no help -- Band I,
> Tafel 2 says that Zwentibold's wife Oda was a daughter of "eines Grafen
> Otto (in Sachsen)", whereas Band II, Tafel 1 has Oda, wife of Zwentibold,
> as a possible daughter (dotted line) of Eudes, King of France. Take your
> pick.
>
> William Addams Reitwiesner
>
>

The confusion is because French and German historians differ. However the
German version is probably preferable, not least for the reason that Odo
was king in 897 when Oda married Zwentibald: to call her daughter of a
*count* Otto would suggest (to me) that the annalist meant someone
else!

The information about Z's marriage is given in the 'Chronicle of Regino of
Prum', who was writing at Mainz c.906. He says that Oda married
Zwentibold at Worms may 897. She was the daughter of a Count
Otto (Regino 897). In 900 Zwentibold was killed in a skirmish with Ct
Gerard and his brothers. Ct Gerard (sometimes called 'of Metz' by
historians etc) then married his widow Oda (Regino 900). Gerard was
exiled to Alemannia by Louis the Child at Metz in 906. He had died by
916. A german historian called Dummler whose works on the German
Carolingians remain the standard research books (I forget the full title,
something like 'Yearbook for Louis the German', III, 457), worked out
that this count Otto was Otto the Illustrious of Saxony (d.912 never
king of Germany by the way, just duke), and has been followed by
German historians (and many others) ever since, eg K.F.Werner 'Die
Nachkommen..', E.Hlawitschka 'Lotharingia und der Reich und der Schwelle
der Deutsche Geschichte' (sp?), T.Reuter 'Germany in the Early
Middle Ages 800-1056.

If Oda was the daughter of Otto, she would be the sister of Henry
the Fowler, and aunt of Otto the Great. A charter of Otto the Great
(no 159) dated December 952, grants everything that his aunt Uota
had in benefice at Deventer in Hamaland, which she had granted to
the church at Magdeburg. This aunt is seen as the widow of Zwentibald
and Gerard.

As well as the confusion in ES mentioned above, there is in another
part of ES, a line of descent for the Matfridinger, where Oda is
also mentioned. In this she has several children by Ct Gerard. This
was a hypothesis of a German genealogist called Kimpen in the 1930's:
not all historians (even German ones, ie Tellenbach) accept this.
In another part of the ES I think this Gerard is confused with
Gebhard uncle of Conrad I of Germany. Gebhard in a charter of
Louis the Child 903 is called duke of Lotharingia: he died fighting
the Hungarians in 910. Some genealogists have confused the two
and made Gerard (or Gerhard) duke instead.

Oda is also said to have had two children by Zwentibald: Cecily and
Benedicta who became abbesses of Susteren, where I think Zwentibald
was buried. This tradition is no older than the 13th century and
may have been invented by the convent.

hope this helps.

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