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From: SETTIPANI< >
Subject: Re: Constance of Toulouse?
Date: 6 Dec 1998 11:17:07 -0800


For Constantia, I have already treated of her family in ‘Nos Ancetres de
l’Antiquite’. To sum up : The name Constantia does not appear in comital
aristocracy before this woman, a countess of Arles, in Provence. It is
so very suggestive that at the time of her birth, the chief of the
regnant family in Provence was named Charles Constantine. Moreover, the
granddaughter of this Constantia, the queen Constantia, have attested
relationship with kindred of Charles Constantine. The conclusion that
Constantia was the daughter (or sister) of Constantine was made
independently by M. Chaume, J. Berge and J.-P. Poly.
Charles Constantine is the son of an emperor, and was named after the
first occidental (frankish) emperor, Charlemagne, and the first oriental
(Byzantine) emperor, Constantine the Great. He claimed evidently descent
from both frankish and byzantine imperial ancestry. Precisely, we know
that sometime before 911, the byzantine emperor Leon VI had given his
only daughter to a frankish prince, cousin of Bertha of Tuscia and
misfortuned. That is far good for the frankish emperor Louis III, second
cousin of Bertha, blinked in 905, father of Charles Constantine. Fine
analysis has showed that chronology fit very well.
So, on both cases, no certitude, but good presomptions.
Other things, about Ed Mann’s long genealogy, and the accurate comments
of Taf :
It is J. Depoin who has first supposed that Constantia, wife of Manasses
of Dammartin was the daughter of Robert II and queen Constantia. The
children of Manasses were named Eudes, Hugues and Adelaide. But Raoul
Glaber says, c. 1030/1045, that Robert and Constantia have four sons and
two daughters. The two daughters are Adele, wife of Baldwin V, and
Hadvise (not Adelaide, a late medieval mistake). There is a definitive
paper about this by W. Scott Jessee, ‘A missing Capetian Princess’,
Medieval Prosopography, 11,2 (1990), p. 1-15. In the same sentence,
Raoul Glaber says that Robert married once to Constantia, daughter of
William duke of Aquitaine, and that they had two daughters. But he don’t
know very well the royal family, for Constantia was the daughter of
William of Provence, not Aquitaine, and Robert had many wifes. And Aimo
know only one daughter to Robert, the wife of Renaud of Nevers. He don’t
know of Adele, married in Flandre. I think the Bourguignon Raoul Glaber
can equally be unaware of a third daughter, married outside Bourgogne.
For Ermengarde, wife of Robert of Auvergne, and Toda de Besalu, I’m in
disagreement with each of my friends S. de Vajay, C. Lauranson, M.
Aurell and Thierry Stasser. Ermengarde was the half-sister of Constantia
by her mother and Toda her half-sister by her father. The two
genealogies will be discussed lenghty in my next book.
For the origin of Gerberga of Anjou, I have recently examine the
question and concluded that she was the daughter of Geoffrey, count of
Nevers and Gatinais. No Herve in this genealogy.
I think that the wife of Rotbald of Arles is really a daughter of
William the Pious. G. de Manteyer as demonstrated that Rotbald was
linked with this duke. While he has given to his sons the names of
William and Boso, this is little doubt that his wife was the daughter of
William the Pious, son-in-law of king Boso.
Adele, wife of Walter of Vexin was the granddaughter, not the daughter,
of Foulques I d’Anjou.
For the remains, there are a lot of mistakes. Most of the dates are
fabulous. E.g., Foulques I is not born in 888 because he is already
adult in 886, Gerberge’s death was not after 952 but before 952, Anna
was born c. 889, not 887, Louis III, c. 880, not c. 888, Adelaide
d’Anjou, c. 945, not 942, and so, and so. Many names are misunderstood,
e.g. Toscanda for Tescenda, Tzautzina for Zautzina, Rotbaude for Rotbald
or Roubaud, Budwine, for Bivin or Bovo, or inconsistent : Werner de
Loches but Garnier de Troyes (this the same name, not the same man),
William le Pieux (Guillaume le Pieux or William the Pious), Louis III
Beronides (what is Beronides ?).

CS

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