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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-09 > 0811288270


From: Nat Taylor < >
Subject: Sancha de Ayala ancestry
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 21:51:10 GMT


The following two e-mail messages concerning Sancha's ancestry are an exchange
between Todd Farmerie and myself. Todd temporarily did not have access to the
soc.genealogy.medieval list, so with his permission I am posting his message
and my reply.

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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:58:52 -0400
From: Todd A. Farmerie < >
Subject: Sancha

I plan to post in more detail, but my server is ill right now and won't
give me access to the usenet groups, so I thought I would give you a head
start.

My main source for the correction [alternate paternal grandfather for Sancha]
is:

_Introduccion a la Biografia del Canciller Ayala_, Juan de Contreras y
Lopez de Ayala Marques de Lozoya. 1950.

This contains a history of the Ayala family compiled by/for Fernan Perez
de Ayala, Sancha's grandfather. There is a continuation written by his
son Pedro Lopez de Ayala, which provides the Ceballos ancestry, as well as
the children of Fernan Perez. The oldest daughter is called "Ines Alfon de
Ayala, married Diaz Gomez de Toledo, son of Pedro Suarez de Toledo and
grandson of Fernan Gomez de Toledo." Since this is not only Pedro's sister,
but also his brother-in-law, he having married Leonor de Guzman, daughter of
Pedro Suarez de Toledo and Maria Ramirez de Guzman, he was in a position to
know this. This is the only contemporary record of which I am aware which
states the paternity of Diego Gomez.

By the way, it provides the following for our Dia Gonzalez de Ceballos:

1.Gonzalo Pelaez de Ceballos (which it notes may be a corruption of Gonz.
Fernandez) m. Maria Diaz, dau. of Diaz Gomez de Vega.

2.Rui Gonzalez de Ceballos m. Estevenia dau. Gotierre Roiz de Longueriela.

3.Roy Gotierrez de Ceballos m. Ximena Diaz dau. Dia Ximenez de Cameros.

4. Gotier Diaz de Ceballos m. Inez Gonzalez Giron, daugh Gonzalo Roir
Giron, by his wife Marquesa Duc, daughter of Pedro Roir Duc `de la casa de
Estrada'.

5. Dia Gonzalez de Ceballos m. Mari Nunez de Finestrosa, daughter of Nuno
Diaz de Finestrosa, son of Diego Lopez el Bueno.

etc.

I note that this line diverges completely from Garcia Carraffa precisely
where GC diverges from the expected nomenclature. I seriously doubt that
either are right with regards to their versions of the early Ceballos (and
this one is a mess). It is interesting that while Dia Gonzalez is given
different fathers, both agree that his mother is daughter of Gonzalo Ruiz
Giron. Marquesa Duc looks fictitious to me too.

As to that possible Carrillo line, I was typing it up a year or so ago to
post to some net correspondants, but when I started filling in dates, ran
into a severe problem. I put it aside, and have not gotten back to it,
nor do I recall what the problem was. The same source (Lopez de Ayala's
continuation) calls Juana Garcia Carrillo daughter of Garcia Gomez
Carrillo, son of Garcia Gomez el de Garfios, but I have long suspected that
this either reversed the names (the latter should be Gomez Garcia) or else
had dropped a generation (which amounts to pretty much the same thing). It
is possible that something datable might be extracted from Juana's two
marriages, to Ceballos and to Alvarez de Toledo, but I don't even know for
certain the order of them.

(more to follow ...)

Todd

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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 00:42:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nathaniel Taylor < >
Subject: Re: Sancha

Todd,

I have spent a pleasant evening pondering the textual tradition of
the various genealogical manuscripts which contain conflicting data
on the parentage of Sancha's father. I trotted off to the library at
Brown (near where I live) and found Michel Garcia's _Obra y
personalidad del Canciller Ayala_ (Madrid, 1983), which has an
edition and a fascinating critical discussion of Fernan Perez' and
Pedro Lopez' genealogical manuscript. His edition supercedes the one
made in 1950 by the Marques de Lozoya. Garcia notes that his
corrects a few minor errors in Lozoya's transcription. He notes, as
Lozoya must have, that the only surviving manuscript of the
genealogical account in its 'original' form is a seventeenth-century
copy in Salazar y Castro's own hand (now among his papers at the RAH
in Madrid).

In it, as you correctly note, Pedro Lopez de Ayala's brother in-law
Dia Gomez de Toledo is noted as son of Pedro Suarez de Toledo and
grandson of Fernan Gomez (Garcia ed., p. 348).

This statement is contradicted by statements in a family of other
manuscripts, of which one is printed by Salazar y Castro in the
proofs to his _Historia genealogica de la casa de Lara_ (vol. 4, pp.
58ff), and which Salazar y Castro incorrectly attributes to Pedro
Lopez de Ayala himself, but which is probably of fifteenth-century
origin (Garcia, pp. 8-9 and n. 5). In this version one reads "...
Fernan Perez [de Ayala] e dona Elvira Alvarez [de Ceballos] ovieron
onze fijos e fijas, ... e los fijas fueron estos: dona Ines Alfon, e
esta caso con Diego Gomez de Toledo, nieto de don Fernan Gomez de
Toledo, e de don Diego Garcia de Toledo ..." This implies a
different parentage for Dia Gomez--the one found in Garcia Carraffa.

While the 15th-century text presented by Salazar y Castro is clearly
derivative of the 'original' Ayala MS in its main portion, it has one
crucial difference: it details the children (and some grandchildren)
of the marriage of Ines de Ayala and Dia Gomez de Guzman. This
additional material shows that the author of this derivative MS had
some knowledge of this branch of the family which came from sources
other than the grand chancellor's manuscript. It is certainly
possible that he could be right where the grand chancellor's
manuscript was in error. Michel Garcia notes (p. 7, no. 1):

"como todos los documentos de esa clase, presenta algunos errores en
la identificacion de las personas. Mi colega, J. P. Molenat, ha
notado algunos relativos a los miembros del linaje que residian en
Toledo. Esos erores, poco numerosos y de escasa trascendencia, no
perjudican la calidad testimonial del texto; ademas, se deben
seguramente, en gran parte, a los copistas, el primero de los cuales
no dudo, al parecer, en anadir detalles de su propia cosecha."

= "like all documents of this type, it presents some errors in the
identification of individuals. My colleague, J. P. Molenat, has
noted some errors concerning members of the family living in Toledo.
Those errors, few and of little impact, don't compromise the
testimonial importance of the text; moreover, they surely stem
largely from copyists, the earliest of whom apparently didn't
hesitate to interpolate details of their own."

While Molenat is identified in the index as Jean-Pierre Molenat,
unfortunately I can find no citations to any publications in which he
might have detailed what he felt were errors in the Ayala MS.
According to the back cover of the book, Michel Garcia was (in 1983)
professor of Spanish literature at the University of Paris (XIII). I
would assume that Molenat was also an historian or literature
professor in Paris.

With your permission I shall post your note and this reply on the
usenet. I hope your link is up again soon!

Nat Taylor

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Nat Taylor

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