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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-10 > 0940462868


From: Reedpcgen< >
Subject: Re: The hitherto unknown marriages of Llywelyn of North Wales
Date: 20 Oct 1999 23:41:08 GMT


What follows is a series of posts on the marriage negotiations and marriages of
Rhodri ap Owain Gwynedd and his nephew Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North
Wales, to the sister of the Earl of Chester and the daughter of the King of
Man. Due to the length of the following discussion, I've had to chop it into
several pieces.

[PART 1:]

John Carmi Parsons was kind enough to take time to summarize the third letter
of Pope Innocent III [concerning the negotiations for marriage between Llywelyn
and the daughter of the King of Man]. As this is long, further commentary will
follow in separate posts. I have also inserted a few comments in this post
{enclosed like this}.

 
<< ..... ELIENSI ..... NORVICENSI, ET ..... DE SANCTO ASAPH, EPISOPIS.
{To the Bishops of Ely [Eustace], Norwich [John de Gray] and St. Asaph
[Reiner]}

Ut causam matrimonii, inter filiam principis Insularum, et principem Norwalliæ,
vertentem terminent. 

Apud S. Petrum, XIII Kal. Martii.

Cum olim dilectus filius, nobilis vir ... princeps Norwalliæ, a nobis humiliter
postulasset, ut de nostra sibi permissione liceret filiam nobilis viri ...
principis Insularum, quam se asseruit subarrasse, ducere in uxorem, non
obstante, quod ... patruo ejus eadem mulier infra nubiles annos fuerat
desponsata, cum neuter eorum transduxisset eamdem, honæ memoriæ ... Mannen.
episcopo, et dilectis filiis ... archidiacono, et ... priori de Insula Glannav.
sub certa forma causam ipsam commisimus terminandam.>>

This preamble indicates that the uncle was betrothed to the girl before she was
of nubile age, but neither the uncle nor the prince himself had actually ever
taken her to wife.

<<Partibus itaque in prædictorum judicum præsentia constitutis, sicut ipsi per
suas nobis litteras intimarunt, per testes ejus constitut evidenter, quod
prædicta puella, octo annis expletis, ab L. principe Norwalliæ, tam suo quam
suorum assensu parentum, fuerat subarrhata, sed, eo ex necessitate ipsam
transducere differente, ejusdem L. patruus ipsam sine consensu ejus postmodum
desponsavit, qui, ea nequaquam carnaliter cognita, viam fuerat universæ carnis
ingressus.>> 

Witnesses testified that the girl was betrothed, aged 8, to Llywelyn with her
consent as well as that of her relatives; but because of subsequent necessity
[I assume political] he declined to take her to wife, and the uncle was
betrothed to her without her consent, but he [the uncle] died before having
carnal knowledge of her.
{That the uncle died without knowing her appears to be false testimony, the
motive for which was an attempt to avoid any impdeiment that would have
prevented her from being able to marry Llywelyn.}

<<Judices ergo prædicti, communicato prudentium virorum consilio, prædicto
Norwalliæ principi auctoritate apostolica concesserunt, ut puellam desponsaret
eamdem, ne discordia inter ipsum et parentes puellæ olim exorta, et tunc
sopita, iterum oriretur.>> 

On the counsel of prudent men, the appointed judges conceded to the prince by
apostolic authority that he might marry the girl, lest the former discord
between himself and her relatives, which has now been put to rest, break forth
again.

<<Nos igitur, eorumdem sententiam, nisi aliud rationabile quidem obstaret,
volentes firmitatem debitam obtinere, dilectis filiis ... abbati de Abenton ...
priori de Henli, et magistro M. canonico de Berlinton.  Bangorensis diœceseos,
dedimus in mandatis, ut ipsam facerent, appellatione remota, per censuram
ecclesiasticam firmiter observari.  Abbas vero prædictus, et conjudices sui,
propter conditionem in litteris nostris expressam, super matrimonio illo, sicut
in eorum litteris perspeximus contineri, studiose ac sollicite, receptis
testibus, veritatem inquirere curaverunt.  Habitis ergo quatuor productionibus
testium, et redactis in scriptis despositionibus eorumdem, ea, quæ ad
decisionem causæ credebant sufficere, de utriusque partis assensu, nobis
transmittere curaverunt, ut nobis rei veritas eluceret, consuleretur
conscientiæ principis supradicti, qui priores judices, et præsertim
archidiaconum et priorem dicebat juris ignaros, et litteras nostras per falsam
suggestionem obtentas, nec se credebat cum eadem puella posse salvari, quæ
patruo ejus tradita in uxorem in uno lecto sæpius fuerat cum eodem.  Nos
igitur, depositionibus testium diligenter inspectis, probatum invenimus per
easdem, quod idem L. puellam ipsam ducturum se juraverat in uxorem, sed nec
ipsam transduxerat, nec probabatur per testes, quod benedictus fuerit, aut in
una terra fuerit cum eadem, utpote quorum terras mare medium dividebat.  In
actis quoque judicum perspeximus contineri, quod suffucientibus testimoniis
probatum fuerat coram ipsis, octo annorum fuisse puellam, quando idem L. eam
juraverat se ducturum.>>

There have been conflicting claims that L. did in fact sleep with her *while
she was betrothed to his uncle*, but after diligent inspection the pope finds
that L. and the girl were never even in the same region together during that
betrothal, but remained separated
both by land and by sea.
{This appears to refer to the time of Llywelyn's original betrothal when she
was about eight.}

[end of part 1]

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