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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2005-09 > 1128079289
From: "John P. Ravilious" < >
Subject: Re: Evidence re. the identity of Alan Fitz Roland's first wife, _____ de Lacy
Date: 30 Sep 2005 04:21:29 -0700
References: <1127830754.650979.45670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> <%Rj_e.17916$0E5.9992@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1127863500.654600.195660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <1127872727.915319.107070@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1127882821.927553.240980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1127888235.151230.236200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <1127891999.094791.206340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <dhdm11$nv2$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <1127919934.771570.90860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <dhf2fu$dkm$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <1128005893.270513.282310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1128008012.057124.285020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1128013653.329792.95260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <INZ_e.2777$U51.346@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <UE1%e.2895$U51.1239@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <N26%e.3105$U51.913@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <433d1768@news.comindico.com.au>
In-Reply-To: <433d1768@news.comindico.com.au>
Dear Louise,
Thanks for that.
While dealing with few knowns and more unknowns, I'd hazard that
Maud de Clere was likely a member of the Clere family of Sinnington and
Shere, co. Yorks. (later of Bramley, Surrey). Ralph de Clere of
Wilton, Shere and Sinnington, co. Yorks. ' confirmed his [brother
Roger's] gift of Atlingworth to Lewes priory, making an agreement
therefor in that year; and who gave the church of Sinnington and 4
bovates to Yeddingham priory.' [Clay, Early Yorkshire Families, p. 21,
cites Lewes Chartulary, ut sup., ii, 51-2; and E.Y.C., i, no. 595].
According to Richard Borthwick, Ralph d. in 1205, having by his wife
Mabel a son Ralph 'II', grandfather of Agatha de Clere (wife of William
le Rus of Stinton, Norfolk and Stradbroke, Suffolk) and ancestor
thereby of de Braose (of Stinton), de Weyland, de la Pole & many many
more besides.
I'd wage a sister of William de Rotherfield was married to a de
Clere (perhaps she was the Mabel (___) de Clere noted above - just a
thought) by whom Maud de Clere came into being. Whether there's a
another notable connections seems a gray (if not yet Grey) area at
present.
Cheers,
John
Louise Staley wrote:
> Having now read Paul Reed's detailed and comprehensive series of posts,
> highlighted below by Peter, I am left with the understanding that Maud,
> wife of Roger de Lacy, Constable of Chester was described as the sister
> of the Treasurer of York. Further the same source as describes Maud this
> way also names the Treasurer of York as William. Lastly that available
> evidence as to men named William who were also Treasurer of York boils
> down to a William de Rotherfield who was treasurer 1218-1221 when "Maud
> was still then alive". Is this a correct summary?
>
> So where does the de Clere come from? And does 'de Rotherfield' suggest
> he was a member of the Greys of Rotherfield family or are there other
> ideas as to which family this William de Rotherfield fitted into?
>
> Louise
>
> Peter Stewart had a few goes and wrote:
> > Peter Stewart wrote in message:
> >
> >>>Roger de Lacy himself was apparently married to Margaret de Clere, whose
> >>>father was merely the treasurer of York.
> >
> > and partially corrected this:
> >
> >
> >>Rather he was married to Maud de Clere, etc.
> >>
> >>Luckily I am not a scribe making an official record, or I might have
> >>written Richard instead of Roger....
> >
> >
> > I beg to differ with myself, again. This time I can be more confident, as
> > I'm not relying on myself but on information from someone who knows the
> > subject at first hand:-
> >
> > Roger de Lacy himself was apparently married to MAUD de Clere, whose BROTHER
> > was merely the treasurer of York.
> >
> > For this matter see Paul Reed's post of 9 February 1999 at
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/7ebug
> >
> > It seems that Richardson still thinks the lady in question was Maud de
> > Clare, as he did in the face of persuasion to reconsider years ago - see the
> > exchanges at
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/cdy2z
> >
> > Perhaps he will tell us why.
> >
> > Peter Stewart
> >
> >
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