GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2003-08 > 1060016475


From:
Subject: Re: Edmund, Earl of Lancaster's cousin, John de St. John
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:01:15 EDT


Monday, 4 August, 2003


Dear Chris, Douglas, Douglas B., et al.,

I have seen other claims as to an earlier foundation of St.
Giles-in-the-Woods (say 1120), but perhaps this was not of the priory - ?
The citation you provided (Chris) from CP, taken from Mon. Anglicanum,
certainly provides a firm foundation <g> as to the Tony/Tosny relationship
with the nunnery.

To summary the evidence now in hand:

1. The name Godeheut was rare, and itself has been identified by
Charles Fitch-Northen as a basis [in an Anglo-Norman setting]
for deducing a Tony relationship [1].

2. William de St. John, of Basing, Hants. and West Shefford, Berks.
(d. 1239), the husband of Godeheut, is contemporaneous with the
issue of Roger de Tosny and Constance de Beaumont. Ralph de
Tosny, of Flamstead, also died in 1239, and Roger d. in 1228.

3. Sir John de St. John (grandson of Godeheut) is identified by Douglas
Richardson as 'cousin' of Edmund of Lancaster, specifically as
' son chier cousin mon sire Johan de Seint Johan '. [2]

4. As I noted on 3 August, there is no relationship between Edmund
of Lancaster and Sir John de St. John that would account for this,
except through the previously unknown ancestry of Sir John's
grandmother Godeheut [3]. If Godeheut was a daughter of Constance
de Beaumont, her grandson Sir John de St. John (d. bef 30 Sept
1302) would be a 4th cousin 1x removed from Edmund of Lancaster,
a relationship that would have resulted in one party addressing
the other as 'cousin' or 'kinsman' during the period.

5. The evidence found by Douglas Richardson in the Curia Regis
Rolls which indicates that Godeheut de St. John (wife of William,
and grandmother of Sir John) "took the veil and became a nun at
the priory of St. Giles de Cella [aka St. Giles-in-the-Woods] at
Flamstead, co. Hertford in or about 1243", and that "her son,
Robert de Saint John, made a valuable gift of annual income to
the priory for the health of the souls of his father, himself,
and his mother, Godeheut" [4].

We then find Godeheut de St. John near the end of her life, in 1243,
in a nunnery founded by Roger de Tony.

While we are short of the desired proof of the relationship, the
circumstantial evidence presented in this thread establishes that Godeheut
( ) (Paynell) St. John should be identified as Godeheut de Tony, daughter
of Roger de Tony and Constance de Beaumont.

Cheers,

John *


* John P. Ravilious





This thread: