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From: Christian Settipani < >
Subject: RE: Charlemagne to the Pharaohs?
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:07:41 +0200
Before I speak about Andromeda, maybe in another post, I have some
comment about the affirmation that Charlemagne was a descendant of
Pharaohs :
I renounced to the Egyptian link as described in LGA many time ago.
Nitetis is not a good idea and the criticism of Chris Bennett is
perfectly accurate.
The only other way I can see for a link with Pharaohs is the Zenobia
connexion. It will suppose that :
1) One can find modern (or even ancient) descendant of Zenobia.
2) That Zenobia's claim to be a descendant of Cleopatra is a genuine
one.
3) The Cleopatra's mother is an Egyptian Memphite lady.
4) That the Memphis' priest have royal links.
Points 1-2) are discussed at lenght in my book on roman families.
Point 4) is a reasonnable assumption with that we know of this family.
But Chris Bennett has recently make a strong case against point 3). So
we are stopped for the moment.
About Charlemagne : his ancestry is only documented for the following
people:
Pippin (2); Berta (3); Carolus (4); Charibert (6); Pippin (8); Alpais
(9); Berta (13); Ansegisel (16).
Those others are virtually certain :
Chrothrud (5); Begga (7); Arnulf (32); Pippin (34); Idoberga (35)
So no proved DFA link. A possibility would be find for him by this way :
1) Arnulf is the son of a Bodogisel, and the nephew, great-nephew or
grandson of Gundulf, Arnulf's teacher and brother of (another)
Bodogisel.
2) This Gundulf, viceroy of Austrasia, is the nephew or cousin of
Gundulf, duke of Austrasia, Arnulf's predecessor as bishop of Metz.
3) this last Gundulf's is the son of Artemia, a noble Gallo-Roman,
perhaps sister of Leontius bishop of Lyon, and attested sister of
Sacerdos, bishop of Lyon, descendant of a patrician and father of an
Aurelianus. Artemia and Sacerdos could be the nephews of Leontius and
Aurelianus, whose mother Hiberia is the descendant of a patrician.
This is sufficient for their father, Hiberia's husband, is Ruricius of
Limoges, attested as a descendant of Anicii, a very great roman family,
with impressive connections in Roman and oriental aristocracies, and
probably to Cleopatra so well.
Points 1-2) will be discussed at lengh in a paper to appears soon in
"Onomastique et parenté". Point 3) was discussed in my paper "Ruricius,
eveque de Limoges", in Francia, 1991.
Let me say that the paper on Arnulf's ancestry was read in the presence
of many medievists, specialized in that period (so, people who are able
to read documents), notably K.F. Werner, R. Lejan, M. Heinzelmann, J.
Richard, A. Stoclet, J.-P. Brunterc'h, and, later, M. Parisse, and that
they find the arguments persuasive. No more,but no less.
CS
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