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From: "Alex Maxwell Findlater" < >
Subject: Re: 1st wife of Alan Fitz Roland of Galloway
Date: 28 Sep 2005 13:30:46 -0700
References: <5202906.1127870970374.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1127899685.746570.261840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <%Jt_e.18368$0E5.12503@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <xHv_e.18525$0E5.9865@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <Q%v_e.18620$0E5.2925@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
The Lacy identity of Alan of Galloway's first wife was proposed by
Stringer in 1972 (Dumfries & Galloway NHAS Transactions Vol XLIX). The
evidence adduced by Stringer is sixfold:
1In 1254 Roger de Quincy granted Kippax to Edmund de Lacy. Quincy was
the husband of Alan's eldest daughter Helen, who we know was not a
daughter by Margaret of Huntingdon as Helen was not an heir to Earl
John, Margaret's brother, and who we know inherited the Constableship
of Scotland, and so was an elder half sister of Dervorguilla.
2In ca 1223 Alan ordered his bailiff to take possession, apparently as
an escheat, of Swillington, which pertained to Kippax.
3The Curia Regis Rolls of 1214 show Alan acting against John de Lacy
(father of Edmund) "de warantia carte de terra de Kippes".
Stringer quotes in English that " John de Chester shall warrant the
charters of his father Richard (per Stringer recte Roger) which Alan
... has anent the maritagium of his sister (the "his" is not
specific between father and son and Stringer says "sister or dau of
Roger de Lacy, constable of Chester")
4A letter of Pope Honorius III of March 1222 states that Alan had
married within the prohibited degrees of consanguinuity. His later
wife was the daughter of Hugh de Lacy, Earl of Ulster (of the Weobley
Lacys), so an earlier Lacy wife (of the Pontefract Lacys) would fit the
bill.
5Stringer also suggests that there would not appear to be a suitable
earlier marriage in Alan's pedigree to allow for him and his
descendants to hold Kippax.
6He also refers to the Close Rolls 1242-47, apparently showing, but
without quotation, that Helen of Galloway's maritagium was in the
Honour of Pontefract.
It seems to me that if the scribe had in his notes written "R", it
could have been for Roger when he wrote it, but when he transcribed it
in the quote in item 3, he expanded it to the more usual Richard.
However, the argument is more complex and more persuasive than anyone
has yet (to my memory) suggested. Clearly once such a case as this has
been made and accepted, those who later propose it do not feel the
necessity to rehearse the whole argument, whether this is actually
necessary or not.
The quote above
". Sciant omnes presentes et futuri has Litteras visuri [et] audituri
. Quod ego Alanus filius Roll(andi) . Dominus Galuuath' Scotie
Constab(ularius) . quitam clamaui . Rogero de lascy . Centrie
Constab(ulario) [et] heredibus suis . de me [et] heredibus meis .
aduocationem ecclesie de kipeis . Hijs Test(ibus) . Eustacio de Vescy .
Roberto Walensi . Willelmo de bello monte . hugone despensario . Thoma
fratre suo . Gilberto fili(o) Cospatric . Radulfo de Campania . Ricardo
clerico de creuequor litterarum scriptore . [et]
multis aliis."
is not sourced, but I assume it to be another piece of unattributed
evidence of which Stringer was unaware when he wrote the 1972 article.
At all events, it would seem to support his argument.
Finally as to the identity of "Ricardo clerico de creuequor
litterarum scriptore" T and C are notoriously interchangeable, or
alternatively confusable, and to anyone familiar with Galloway this
must be Troqueer. Richard is clearly the priest of Troqueer. Old
forms of Troqueer have for "Tro" "Treve", from the Brythonic
"tref", a place, as in Threve, Terregles and many other Galwegian
place names.
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