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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: Identification of Maud, wife of John de Moels, Lord Moels (d. 1310)
Date: 4 Feb 2002 07:12:18 -0800
References: <3b.2087fdb1.297532d5@aol.com>


Dear John ~

Thank you for your good post on the Moels-Grey connection.

I've checked various sources to see what I could learn regarding the
Moels family. I determined that following the death of his older
brother, Nicholas, in 1316, the wardship of Roger de Moels, son of
John de Moels, Lord Moels (died 1310), was granted to William Inge.
As it turns out, William Inge was the 2nd husband of Iseult (de Grey)
St. Pierre, daughter of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton. By
your arrangement of the Moels-Grey family, Iseult, wife of William
Inge, would be the aunt of Roger de Moels. William Inge's acquisition
of Roger de Moels' wardship would tend to support your identication of
Roger de Moels' mother, Maud, as being the daughter of John de Grey,
2nd Lord Grey of Wilton.

Have you found anything else regarding the Moels-Grey connection?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail:


wrote in message news:< >...
> Tuesday, 15 January, 2002
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
> Under _Moels_, Complete Peerage states of John de Moels, lst Lord Moels
> (d. 20 May 1310),
>
> 'He m., in or before 1302, Maud.
>
> NOTE (b) Cal. Patent Rolls, 1301-7, p. 53. Her
> parentage has not been ascertained.' [Vol. IX, p. 6]
>
> I have determined that she was Maud de Grey, elder daughter of John de
> Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton; further, that the mother of Maud and her
> younger sibling(s) was the lst wife of John de Grey [said to be Anne le
> Despenser] and not Maud Basset, his second wife.
>
> In CP, under Grey of Ruthin, there is a statement concerning the
> inheritance of Sir Roger de Grey, younger son of John de Grey above and later
> Lord Grey [of Ruthin]. The footnote concerning this inheritance states,
>
> ' By five fines, leived, two in the octaves of St.
> Michael, two from St. Michael in fifteen days, and
> one on the morrow of All Souls 5 Edw. II, John de
> Grey conveyed (1) the manor of Holwell, two parts
> of the manor of Stokehammond and the reversion of
> the third part (expectant on the death of Lettice,
> wife of John de Eton, who held the same in dower),
> (2) the manors of Great Brickhill, Over Bletchley,
> and Snellson, (3) the manors of Yelling, Hemingford
> Turberville, Harrold, Puddington, Thurleigh,
> Brogborough, and Wrest, to himself for life, with
> rem. to Roger his son in tail general, with further
> remainders, as to (2), to Roger son of John de
> Mules, in tail general; as to (3), to John son of
> Ralph Basset of Drayton, and to Ralph br. of the
> last named John, in successive tail general; with
> final rem., in each case, to his own right heirs.
> (Feet of Fines, case 3, file 41, no. 16; case 18,
> file 63, nos. 18, 24; case 87, file 55, no. 101;
> case 93, file 19, no. 17). ' [Vol VI, p. 153 note (a)]
>
>
> By the foregoing, John de Grey made provision for his descendants other
> than his own heir apparent and elder son Henry, who would succeed to the
> manor of Wilton in the future, and the prior conveyance by licence (18 Nov
> 1311) to himself, with remainder to his younger son Roger, of the castle of
> Ruthin, co. Denbigh and certain other lands [CP Vol. VI, p. 174]. These were:
>
> 1. Roger de Moels [Mules], son of John de Moels, Lord
> Moels, by his daughter Maud de Grey. John de Moels
> had already died on 20 May 1310, and his elder son
> Nicholas had also passed away as well (death
> given by CP, Vol IX, p. 6 as simply 'before 29 Jan
> 1315/16).
>
> Roger was born ca. 11 June 1295, and was a minor
> at the time of the fine. In fact, Roger de Moels
> did not acquire the manors noted in the above fines,
> as he predeceased his grandfather, before 13 Jul
> 1316. He was succeeded in his right to the manors
> of the de Moels family by his brother John, later
> 4th Lord Moels.
>
> 2. John Basset, elder son of Ralph Basset, Lord Basset
> of Drayton (d. 1342) by Joan de Grey, daughter of
> Henry de Grey by his first wife, together with his
> younger brother Ralph Basset. John d.v.p. before
> 1342; his younger brother Ralph died ca. 1335,
> leaving a son Ralph Basset (who eventually succeeded
> his grandfather Ralph in 1342 as Lord Basset of
> Drayton).
>
> That Maud, and her younger sister Joan, could not have been the daughter
> of John de Grey by Maud Basset is due to an almost insurmountable problem of
> consanguinity. Maud Basset was the aunt of Ralph Basset of Drayton (d.
> 1342), husband of Joan de Grey. Were Maud the mother of Joan, she and her
> husband Ralph would have been related in the 2nd degree [lst cousins], which
> relationship would be most unlikely to receive a dispensation at the time
> (prior to 27 march 1304).
>
> Based on the foregoing, the following table reflects the relationships
> now identified.
>
> Sir William = Anne le Sir Reynold = Maud de
> de Ferrers I Despenser de Grey I Longchamps
> I ________________I
> I I
> 1) Anne de = John de Grey = 2) Maud
> Ferrers I Lord Grey of Wilton Basset
> I d. 28 Oct 1323
> ____________I___________________________
> I I I I
> Maud = John de Henry de Sir Roger Joan = Ralph
> de I Moels Grey de Grey de Grey I Basset
> Grey I d. 1310 I I I
> _____I________ I I _____I______
> I I I I______ I I I
> Nicholas I I I I I I
> dsp I Sir John I I John Ralph
> ______I de Moels I I Basset Basset
> I d.ca. 1337 I I dsp dvp 1335
> Roger I I I
> d.ca. I I I
> 1316 V V V
> from whom, Grey Grey
> via Muriel: of of
> Lord Dinham; Wilton Ruthin
> Lord Hungerford;
> & c.
>
>
> From the marriage of Muriel de Moels and her husband Sir Thomas de
> Courtenay, of Dunterton and Woodhuish, co. Devon, the following emigrants are
> descended:
>
> 1. William Asfordby
>
> 2. William Bladen
>
> 3. & 4. George and Nehemiah Blakiston
>
> 5. William Farrar
>
> 6. Anne Humphrey
>
> 7. John Nelson
>
> 8. Herbert Pelham
>
> 9. Edward Raynsford
>
> 10. William Skepper
>
> 11. Maria Johanna Somerset
>
> 12. John Stockman
>
> 13. John West
>
> 14. George Yate
>
>
> Good luck, and good hunting to all.
>
>
> John *
>
>
> * John P. Ravilious


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