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Subject: CP Addition: Eleanor de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:47:51 EST
Saturday, 17 December, 2005
Hello All,
The diary of Richard Symonds is a well known source for studies
of the struggle between Cromwell and King Charles I in the 1640’s,
but also supplies some interesting non-military information. This
includes a detailed description of the windows of Exeter Cathedral,
including in some cases the family names of those whose arms are
depicted, shown as being recorded in 1644. These are most likely
the arms of individuals (in most cases, married couples) who were
benefactors of the cathedral.
Among the arms depicted, a number of married couples can be
identified. These include Sir Nicholas Carew (d. bef 20 Apr 1448)
and his wife Joan Courtenay ["COURTENAY, with a label of three
points azure." followed by "Or, three lions passant in pale sable
[CAREW]."], and Sir William de Montagu (d. 30 Jan 1343/4] and his
wife Katherine de Grandison ["GRANDISON." followed by
"MONTACUTE."] [1]. In particular, the arms described in the sixth
window (p. 85) are of interest, despite having only a partial
identification provided by the editor:
" Sixth window:
A similar coat to the last.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable.
Or, three lions passant sable.
Gules, three fusils conjoined in fess ermine [DINHAM]. " [2]
The first pair of arms are probably those of a gentleman of the
Carew family ["Or, three lions passant sable."] and his wife; but
of special interest are those of the second pair of arms. The male
of the pair is clearly of the family of Dinham, of Hartland, Devon
& c. The arms of the lady in question ("Argent, three fusils
conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable."] are those of Sir John
de Montagu, Lord Montagu (d. bef 5 Mar 1389/90), younger brother of
William, 2nd Earl of Salisbury, younger son of Sir William de
Montagu and Katherine de Grandison (see above) and husband of
Margaret de Monthermer [3].
The pairing of these arms clearly identify (without names) a
married couple, i.e. a male Dinham and a daughter of Sir John de
Montagu. This can only be Sir John de Dinham (d. 25 Dec 1428) and
his first wife, Eleanor (aka Ellen) de Montagu, the subject of
several prior SGM threads [4].
This is the first direct evidence of Sir John de Dinham’s wife
being identified as a daughter of Sir John de Montagu. In
combination with the circumstantial evidence previously provided in
the SGM posts referenced below, this identification can now be
classified as certain.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] C. E. Long, ed., Richard Symonds's Diary of the Marches of
the Royal (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1997), p. 85.
[2] Ibid. The complete text of page 85, found at the URL indicated
below, is as follows:
" 1644.]
Second window:
Quarterly FRANCE and ENGLAND, a label of three points argent.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules.
COURTENAY, with a label of three points azure.
Gules, fretty or.
Or, three lions passant in pale sable [CAREW].
Fourth window:
Or, a chevron between three escallops azure.
Argent, two bendlets wavy sable [STAPYLDON].
Ermine, three chevrons gules.
Azure, three bends argent.
Per chevron gules and sable, three keys erect, wards facing
the dexter side, or.
The picture of a monke:
Mag'r. Tho. de Hacteley me fecit.
Fifth window:
Quarterly, FRANCE and ENGLAND.
The same with a label of three points argent.
Gules, three lions passant or, a label of three points each
charged with three fleurs-de-lis or [EARLS and DUKES
OF LANCASTER].
Or, a chevron between three escallops azure.
Azure, three quatrefoils argent.
FERRERS.
Per fess gules and azure, three crescents argent.
Sixth window:
A similar coat to the last.
Argent, three fusils conjoined in fess gules, a bordure sable.
Or, three lions passant sable.
Gules, three fusils conjoined in fess ermine [DINHAM].
These are aloft in the north side of the body of the church:
A chevron between three keys erect, the wards pointing to the
dexter side or.
GRANDISON.
Argent, three chevrons sable.
MONTACUTE.
Argent, three bars gules.
Second window, beginning eastward:
MONTACUTE, with a bordure sable.
Argent, a fess sable, a bordure gules. "
URL
http://books.google.com/books?ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&id=xe3pX0_tWIwC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=dinham+montacute&prev=http://books.google.com/books%3Flr%3D%26q %
3Ddinham%2Bmontacute&sig=HekYtNXl7m5uwWlmSLw1En0XvJA
[3] These arms are as described in several sources, including
Ald S. S. Campion, J.P., "Northampton Town Hall: Its Story Told
By Itself" (Northampton: W. Mark & Co. Ltd. Printer &
Publishers, 1925 ) available at
http://northamptoncastle.homeip.net/northampton/books/town%20hall/book.htm
Also see "Holy Trinity Blackburn, The Ceiling" as described at
http://members.aol.com/htblackburn/htbceiling.htm
[4] See J. Ravilious, <John Dinham (d. 1428) and his 1st wife, Elen
[Montagu ?] >, SGM, 21 Feb, 2004. J. Ravilious, <CP Addition:
Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir John de Dinham>, SGM, 27
March 2004. J. Ravilious, <The Lady and The Crown>, SGM, 3 Sept
2005. Also note that Leo van de Pas’ website,
http://www.genealogics.org , identifies Eleanor de Montagu as
indicated (Genealogics # I00387511).
* John P. Ravilious
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