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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-03 > 1174861575
From: "Peter Stewart" < >
Subject: Re: FITZRICHARDS
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:26:15 GMT
References: <mailman.558.1174686536.3661.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><b_ZMh.979$M.590@news-server.bigpond.net.au><eu3c3i$osq$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu><bnjNh.1334$M.219@news-server.bigpond.net.au><mailman.632.1174843199.3661.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
"Robert Forrest" < > wrote in message
news: ...
> Paul Davis, in a September 2001 post to SGM,cited Vivian's Vis. of Devon
> which derived the origin of the Giffards from this same family. Davis said
> Vivian's pedigree shows another son for Geoffrey of Brionne (who he says
> d. c1000):
>
> "This Geoffrey had a son Gilbert of Brione, lord of Bec, count
> d'Eu, and captain of Tellieres, ob. 1034.
Two different men are conflated here: Duke Richard I's illegitimate son
Godfrey/Geoffrey had two sons, Gilbert and Robert. Gilbert was count of
Brionne, and was murdered soon after taking the place of Alan III of
Brittany as a guardian of the young Duke William (later the Conqueror). This
followed the murder of Alan on 1 October 1040, so the date 1034 is clearly
wrong as is the identification with Tillires (see below). Robert had a
daughter, name unknown, who married Baudry the German. The wives of both
Gilbert and Robert are unknown.
> "This Gilbert, and Gunora, daughter of Fulk Alan, had four sons,
> including Richard FitzGilbert, earl of Brione and Clare, and
> Gilbert, lord of Tellieres.
Wrong - Gilbert Crespin, castellan of Tillires, was a younger contemporary
but not the same as Gilbert fitz Godfrey, count of Brionne. Gilbert Crespin
married Gunnora who was a daughter of Foulques of Aunou by a daughter of
Baudry the German and the daughter of Robert above, consequently this
Gunnora was a great-niece of Gilbert fitz Godfrey of Brionne.
> "This Richard, and the previously mentioned Rohais who had
> St.Neot in dower, had a daughter Rohais.
Richard fitz Gilbert (of Brionne) married Rohais, daughter of Walter
Giffard, and they were ancestors of the Clare family as mentioned before.
They were probably the parents of another Rohais, but she married Eudo of
Ryes, seneschal of Normandy.
> "The previously mentioned Gilbert, lord of Tellieres, had a son
> Ralph de Tellieres.
I don't know anything about this alleged son Ralph. The recorded sons of
Gilbert I of Tillires were Gilbert II of Tillires, William, viscount of
the Vexin, and Robert who was poisoned in Constantinople. There may have
been another son, Milo, who fought at Hastings, but this relationship is not
definite.
> "This Ralph, and the most recently mentioned Rohais, had a son
> Robert de Tellieres, who assumed the name of Giffard.
As above, I don't know about this Ralph and the Rohais ascribed as his wife
seems highly dubious as well.
> "This Robert had a son and heir Gervaise Giffard...", etc.
>
> Is there any basis for this in reality?
Someone else can no doubt tell us about the ancestry of the later Giffards,
I don't have any useful recollection or time to look this up at present.
Peter Stewart
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