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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-01 > 0854101953


From: Richard Borthwick < >
Subject: Re: RICHILDE OF GERMANY / KUNO, Count von Oehningen Query
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:32:33 +0800


John H Camp wrote:
>
>In Paul McBride's file he lists Richilde (spelled Rechilde) of Germany as a
>daughter of Otto I, "the Great", Holy Roman Emperor by an unknown wife. He
>also cites as his reference an article in The American Genealogist, p. 150,
>Jan. 1973. Has there been any new information since then to confirm or
>disprove this?
>
>Mr. McBride also lists several children that Richilda and Kuno are supposed
>to have had. They are listed below with a few extra tidbits that I've thrown
>in.
>
>[illegit.] RICHILDE OF GERMANY, m. KUNO, Count of Oehningen, d. ca. 1020.
>
>1. HEMMA VON OEHNINGEN, m. FRIEDRICH I, Count an der Oberen Isar, fl. 1003/30,
> a son of Berthold I, Count Palatine of Bavaria, and N.N., Duchess of Upper
> Lorraine. McBride does not list a spouse for Hemma but Schwennicke,
Band I,
> Taf. 36 lists a Hemma as a daughter of a Kuno.
>
>[on another topic, the N.N., Duchess of Upper Lorraine who marries Berthold I
>is identified in Schwennicke, Band I, Taf. ?? (I'm doing this from memory -
>faulty though it be - and my guess is Taf. 41) as a daughter of Friedrich I
>Duke of Upper Lorraine. "Royalty For Commomers" also adds that her mother
>was Beatrix of France, a daughter of Hugh I Magnus and Hedwig of Saxony.
>Anyone care to comment on the validity of that??]
>
>2. ITHA VON OEHNINGEN, d. 16 Oct. 1020, m. RUDOLF II, Count von Altdorf.
> Again, McBride does not list a spouse for here, but Schwennicke, Band I,
> Taf. 57 (I think) lists an Ita, daughter of Count Kuno von Oeningen as
> Rudolf's spouse. "Royalty For Commomers" also mentions that among the
> other children that this couple had (as per Schwennicke), they also had
> Kuno (2.4 below). He is then supposed to be the father of N. von Altdorf
> who married Heinrich von Schweinfurt as found in Schwennicke, Band I, Taf.
> 9 (I believe).
>2.4. (poss.) KUNO I, Count of Altdorf, fl. 1017.
>2.4.1. N. VON ALTDORF, Countess von Altdorf, m. HEINRICH VON SCHWEINFURT,
Count
> in the Pegnitz, fl. 1021/42.
>
>3. N. VON OEHNINGEN, d. 1014. (as listed in McBride's file)
> My guess is that this is the N. Von Oehningen who married St. Vladimir I
> Swjatoslavich, Grand Prince of Kiev and was the mother of DOBRONEGA MARIA
> WLADIMIROVNA OF KIEV, wife of Casimir I, King of Poland.
>
>4. RICHILDA VON OEHNINGEN, m. KUNO, Count of Rheinfelden, d. 1026. (as listed
> in McBride's file)
>
>5. JUDITH VON OEHNINGEN, m. LUDWIG, Count of Dagsburg, founder of the
> monastery at St. Quirin, d. aft. 980. (as listed in McBride's file)
>5.1. HEILWIG OF DAGSBURG, b. ca. 970/75; d. 1046; m. HUGH VI, Count of
> Egisheim and Nordgau, b. ca. 960; d. bef. 1049, a son of Hugh V, Count in
> the Nordgau, Count in Lower Alsace, and Berlinda of Ortenburg.
> Schwennicke, Band VI (last Taf. in the band - forget the number) lists
> Heilwig's father as Ludwig - somehow he becomes identified with the
Ludwig
> immediiately above).
>
>6. KUNIGUNDE VON OEHNINGEN, b. 980; d. 1005; m. FREDERICK VON BUEREN, Count
> Palatine of Swabia, b. 960; d. 1027. (as per McBride's file - Winkahus
> also agrees with the existance of Kunigunde though he assigns a different
> Frederick as her hubby).
>
>7. EKBERT VON OEHNINGEN, Margrave von Stade. (as found in McBride's file)
>
>McBride lists as his sources Schwennicke, "Royalty for Commoners", and "The
>Lineage and Ancestry of HRH Prince Charles" by Gerald Paget (a source I don't
>have access to).
>
>I'd like to know if anyone can confirm or disprove any of the above as
>children of Kuno and Richilda. Your help will be most appreciated!!!
>
I was hoping that someone with rather more expertise on the vexed subjects
of the identity of Kuno von Oehningen and that of his wife Richlint might
put finger to keyboard. I know of no scholarly discussion of this subject in
English, but it has received substantial treatment in German.

The substantial articles and essays are:

Karl Schmidt "Probleme um den 'Grafen Kuno von Oehningen' in *Dorf und Stift
Oehningen* (1966) edited by Herbert Berner, pp.43-93.

Armin Wolf "Were war Kuno von 'Oehningen'?" in *Deutches Archiv*, 1980
vol.36, pp.25-81.

Eduard Hlawitschka "Wer waren Kuno und Richlind von Oehningen? Kritische
Ueberlegungen zu einen neuen Identifitzierungsvorschlag" pp.1-49 [of a journal
whose title etc I have unfortunately lost]

Eduard Hlawitschka "Die Thronkandidaturen von 1002 und 1024: Gruendeten sie
im Verwandtenanspruch oder in Vorstellungen von freier Wahl?" in *Reich und
Kirche vor dem Inventiturstreit*(Sigmaringen: Jan Thorbecke, 1985) edited by
Karl Schmidt, pp.49-64

The third article is a reply to Wolf. All of these articles recite the
relevant portions of the *Genealogia Welforum* and *Historia Welforum* and
the relevant charters. The last article is the most recent of the batch.

The present picture seems to be that Kuno (which name is a short form
variant of 'Konrad') is to be identified with Konrad (b.925/30 d.20/8/997)
duke of Swabia father of Hermann II. The problem is Richlind. The charter in
which she is mentioned is a proven fabrication and that her mention in the
GW an invention. Konrad of Swabia had a proven wife, Judith. In the last
article by Hlawitschka, he presents a very clever and plausible
reconstruction of Judith's ancestry. If he is correct then she was indeed
related to the emperor Otto I. According to the reconstruction Judith would
be Otto's 1st cousin twice removed. On her mother's side she would be the
great granddaughter of one of Otto's paternal uncles (i.e. a brother of king
Henry the Fowler). The point seems to be that the GW etc in assigning an
alleged daughter of Otto as the wife of Kuno von Oehningen were indicating
that Kuno's wife had blood ties with the royal dynasty ('koenigsnahe') and
in this these sources were correct. What was mistaken was the name and
precise relationship to the dynasty. In any event if Kuno is identical with
duke Konrad, he would have had something that even the current Saxon dynasty
did not, koenigsnahe with the Carolingians (his mother was one such).

This is a mere sketch of what I take to be the present state of play. The
debate may of course have moved on since I researched the subject (about 1990).

If Kuno is identical with Konrad of Swabia then it would seem that he has an
interesting array of children. Part of the problem of Kuno's identity was
that his children married into the highest levels of the nobility which
suggested that he was something more than the mere lord of Oehningen.
Kuno/Konrad would have been about 52/57 when he became duke so he would have
been known as a count in the Rheingau (949) and lord of Oehningen.

I hope this is not misleading and of some help.

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