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From: Reedpcgen< >
Subject: Re: CP XIV: FitzPayn, Grey, Bryan [VERY LONG!] [part 3]
Date: 21 Oct 1998 04:02:01 GMT


[part 3]

A bit more on the descent of the heirs of Sir Guy de Bryan who occurred in the
1488 partition. I'll concentrate on the two lines following Edward Ponynges
and Thomas St. Maur, since the Earl of Northumberland and Earl of Ormond are
already well known. I have thrown the following together without taking the
time to clean it up, but I hope it may be of some use anyway, since I have
received queries about the Erleigh descent.

POYNINGS:

Sir Edward Poynings, or Ponynges, b. 1459, d. 1521, of Westenhanger, co. Kent,
married Elizabeth/Isabel Scott, of Scott Hall, Kent, whom he married by 1485.
He sided with Henry Tudor, having fled England, but returning with Henry's
forces in August 1485. He became comptroller of the Household, treasurer, Lord
Deputy of Ireland, and Knight of the Garter, and Member of Parliament. Since
he was so favored by Henry VIII, his inclusion in the settlement of 1488 seems
like it would have been likely, whether deserved or not.

Sir Edward was son of Robert Poynings, MP, b. 1419, d. 3 Feb. 1461, of
Maidstone, Kent. He was "carver and sword-bearer" to Jack Cade, and later lead
another rising in Southwark in 1453. He was first husband of Elizabeth Paston
(d. 1 Feb. 1488), daughter of Sir William Paston. After Robert's death, she
married (2) Sir George Browne, MP, of Betchworth, Surrey. Robert was second
son of Robert, Lord Poynings (d. 1446). Lord Robert, b. Okeford [Ackford]
Fitzpaine, co. Dorset, 3 Dec. 1382, was son and heir of Richard de Poynings,
Lord Poynings, by his wife, Isabel, daughter and heir of Robert FitzPan, son of
Sir Richard de Grey, of Codnor, by his wife Joan FitzPayn.

ERLEIGH, ERLE, ST. MAUR:

1. John Erle, or Erleigh, d. 11 Edw. III [1337], holding Erlegh, co. Berks.,
and Durston, Babcary and Beckington, co. Somerset. His wife, Elizabeth, d. 34
Edw. III. The main line apears to have sold their Berkshire lands, whence they
derived their surname, aand settled at Beckington, co. Somerset.

2. John Erleigh, their son and heir, was born at Durston 29 Nov. 6 Edw. III
[1332] (CIPM 10:81-2, no. 198). There are accounts of this descent in Banks'
Baronies in Fee (1843) 2:74 and Collinson's History of Somerset (1791) 2:198-9.
It is said that he was knighted, and that he married MARGARET DE BRIEN,
daughter of Sir Guy de Brien, K. G. Banks cites "MS. voc. Chaos In Coll[ege
of] Arm[s]" for the identification of the wife and her parentage. They are
supposed to be parents of Sir John, Richard, and Philip de Erleigh and three
daughters.

Margaret might have been born say 1340-50, more likely about 1345. This would
fit with her being second daughter of Sir Guy de Bryan/Briene, Lord Bryan. But
that Margaraet's husband Hugh de Courtenay did not die until 1374. This would
make the intervening chronology a little tight, unless the pedigrees are in
error and there was no John who married isabel de Paveley [my generation 3,
next]. It is known from the IPM of John St. Maur (below) that his wife
Margaret was the daughter of John Erlegh, esquire, and her lands prove she was
the Erleigh heiress.

[3. John de Erleigh is stated to have married Isabael de Paveley, daughter of
Sir John de Paveley [?PCC 1393?]. John may have been born any time ca.
1360-70, given his daughter's probable birth date.]

4. Margaret de Erley, or Erle, daughter [and heir] of John de Erleigh, may have
been born about 1385-90, as her son and heir was born in 1410. Margaret is
stated to have married (1) John de St. Maur, second son of Sir Richard de St.
Maur, knight; (2) Sir Walter Sondes, knight; and (3) Sir William de Cheyney,
knight.

That Margaret would have married three knights is believable as she was a great
heiress in her own right. The inquisition post mortem of Margaret who was wife
of William Cheyne, knight, listed parts or the whole of the following: 1/3 of
the manor and advowson of North Molton [St. Maur inheritance], and the advowson
of Blaketoryton, co. Devon; 1/4 of the manor of Westbury, co. Wiltshire; lands
in Crudlyngcote, the manor and advowson of BOKYNGTON, the manor and advowson of
Bakkarc, the manor of Pury [which may have come into the Erleigh family from
Elizabeth, wife of no. 1], the manor and advowson of DURSTON, and lands, etc.,
in Blakeford and Prestlegh, co. Somerset [Cayley and Bailey, CIPM, 21 Hen. VI,
no. 37]. She therefore held the manors and advowsons John and Elizabeth
Erle/Erleigh [generation 1] held at their deaths.

Ela (d. 8 Feb. 1409/10), widow of Richard St. Maur, Sr. [son and heir of
Nicholas and Muriel St. Maur], died leaving issue at least two sons, (1)
Richard (who was already dead without male issue, his heir being his daughter
Alice [she married William, Lord le Zouche]) and (2) John St. Maur, aged 30 at
his mother's IPM 11 Hen. IV [1409]. Among other manors, Ela held the manor and
advowson of North Molton, and the advowson of Blaketoryton.

The IPM of John de St. Maur states that he died Wednesday 16 Oct. 1415. It
also states that he was son of Richard de St. Maur, lord of Castlekary, and
that John's wife, Margaret, yet living [the inquisition was taken 30 mar. 1416]
daughter of John Erlegh, esquire, held land in Blakeford and Prestlegh, and the
advowson of Blakeford jointly, by the grant (levied by fine) of Richard St.
Maur, knight, at the rent of a rose. John also held the manor of North Molton
and the advowsons of North Molton and Blaketoryton. His heir was his son John,
aged 6 in 1416.

5. John St. Maur, son and heir of Margaret, born ca. 1410, is stated to have
married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Thomas Broke [Brooke], and to have died 17
Hen. VI [before his mother, hence he would not have held her lands]. John's
IPM says he died seised of 2/3 of the manor f North Molton, etc. William
Cheyne and Margaret his wife, 'late wife of John de St. Maur, father of John
named in the writ" held manors and advowsons in dower. John died Thursday 25
Sep. 1438, his son and heir Thomas, was aged 11 in 1438.

The IMP of Elizabeth, widow of John St. Maur, states she d. 6 Aug. 1457, and
that her son and heir Thomas, was aged 26. She held the manor of
Mighelchurche by the gift [charter dated 23 July 1425] of Sir Thomas Broke,
knt., deceased, her father. She also held land in North Molton in dower.

6. Sir Thomas St. Maur, son and heir, b. ca. 1427-1431, is stated to have
married Philippa Hungerford, daughter of Sir Edmund Hungerford. He died 26
Oct. 5 Hen. VII [1489] seised of North Molton, co. Devon, Bakeford, Presteley,
BEKYNGTON, Rode, Credelyngcote, DURSTON, Babcury, and Pury, co. Somerset [CIPM
Hen. VII]. His son and heir John, who is stated in the inquisition to have
married Elizabeth, daughter of Richard Chocke [Choke, knight, of Long Aston,
co. Somerset, Justice of the Comon Pleas], predeseased him, so his heir was
found to be that John's son William, aged 19 or 20.

7. John St. Maur, esquire, born say 1450, died 5 Oct. 1485 at Beckington, co.
Somerset, where there is a MI to him and his wife Elizabeth. He left a will
(PCC 18 Logge), which I have not checked.

8. Sir William St. Maur, b. ca. 1469/70, married Margaret Edgecombe, daughter
of Sir Richard [marriage settlement dated 24 Jan. 1485/6, leaving William in
Richard's care until his majority]. They had a daughter and heir, Joan
Seyntmaur, aged 4/2 at her father's death, who is said to have died without
issue.

So this at least explains the possible descent claimed by Thomas St. Maur in
1488, as represntative of the younger sister and coheir Margaret de
Bryan/Briene.

pcr

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