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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-08 > 0903668645
From: "Dennis J. Cunniff" < >
Subject: Re: Grosvenor / Pershale Connection and Line?
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:04:05 -0400
Sophelyn asks: what source says Isabella Pershale and Thomas Grosvenor
are the parents of Randall Grosvenor ?
Jacobus, Donald Lines, The Bulkeley Genealogy, The Tuttle, Morehouse, and
Taylor Company, New Haven, Connecticut, 1933 discusses "The Grosvenor
Line" on pages 6-11.
He gives the following lineage:
(1) Robert le Grosvenor & Alice
(2) Randle le Grosvenor ( - <1232)
(3) Robert le Grosvenor ( - <1231) & Margery
(3) Richard le Grosvenor
(4) Robert le Grosvenor ( - <1293) & Margery
(5) Robert le Grosvenor ( - <1328) & Margery
(6) Robert le Grosvenor ( - <1342) & Emma de Modburlegh (dau. of
William de Modburlegh)
(7) Ralph le Grosvenor ( - <1356) & Joan
(8) Sir Robert le Grosvenor* (~1342 - 1396) & Joan de Pulford
(dau. of Robert de Pulford)
(9) Sir Thomas Grosvenor (1377 - 1429) & Joan Venables
(10) Robert Grosvenor (~1405 - )
(10) Ralph Grosvenor
(10) Thomas Grosvenor (~1415 - ) & Isabella Peshall, dau. of
Richard Peshall
(11) Randall Grosvenor & Margaret Mainwaring, dau. of Randall
Mainwaring
(12) Randall Grosvenor (~1480 - 1559) & Anne Charlton (~1480 -
)
(13) Thomas Grosvenor
(13) Geoffrey Grosvenor
(13) Katherine Grosvenor
(13) Elizabeth Grosvenor (~1515 - ) & Thomas Bulkeley (~1515
- 1591)
(13) Robert Grosvenor
(13) Margery Grosvenor
(13) Randall Grosvenor
(13) Henry Grosvenor
(10) Randall Grosvenor
(8) Sir Robert le Grosvenor* (~1342 - 1396) & Margaret Danyers ( -
1370)
(7) Robert le Grosvenor
(2) Robert le Grosvenor
He says Isabella Peshall was daughter and coheir of Richard Peshall of
Chetwynd and Bellaport, Shropshire. (Richard, >not< Robert)
He dismisses the "pleasing fancy" that a descent can be traced from a
"Gilbert le Grosvenor" as a myth deriving from a misreading of the name
of Gilbert de Venables, baron of Kinderton.
He describes a dispute between Sir Richard Scrope (1st Baron Scrope of
Bolton) and Sir Robert Grosvenor, who both claimed the same arms (Azure,
a Bend, Or). Witnesses for Scrope included John of Gaunt; the future
Henry IV; Sir John Holand; Geoffrey Chaucer; and Henry de Percy ("Harry
Hotspur"). "Wild claims" made by both sides during this dispute are not
supported by other evidence.
He cites the following as sources:
(1) W.H.B. Bird, "The Grosvenor Myth", The Ancestor, 1902, vol. 1, pp.
166-188; vol 2, pp. 129-55.
(2) Ormerod: "History of Cheshire," vol. 3, pp. 143-152.
(3) Collins: The Peerage of England, 4th Edition, 1768, vol. 7, pp.
503-514.
(4) The Herald and Genealogist, vol. 4, pp. 481-495; vol. 5, pp. 322-326,
499-507. (contains errors, he notes)
(5) Shropshire Archaeological Society Transactions, 4th Series, vol. 10,
pp. 290, 292, 293; vol. 11, p. 40.
(6) Documentary evidence is appended:
a) Inquisitions on estate of Randall Grosvenor (husband of Margaret
Mainwaring)
b) will of Randall Grosvenor (husband of Anne Charleton)
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