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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-02 > 0857014437


From: Nathaniel Taylor < >
Subject: Re: Ida and Ela [was: countess Ida, etc.]
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 03:33:57 GMT


In article < >, I wrote:

> I'll try to look at it later this week when I'm at school,
> to add a few more bars to this little fugue.

Surprise! The published edition of the Bradenstoke priory charters
(Cartulary of Bradenstoke Priory, ed. Vera C. M. London; Wilts. Rec. Soc.,
35; Devizes, 1979) is actually a calendar of abstracts, not a full text
edition. Those of you who still insist on reading the original charters
must, alas, do it in the British Library.

There are two charters attesting William Longespee's maternity, one
appearing in each of the fragmentary extant Bradenstoke cartularies (both
fourteenth-century MSS): BL Cotton Vitellius A.11, f. 102 (no. 646 in the
pub. vol.) and BL Stowe 925, f. 143 (no. 481).

Of course, the abstracts, plus the original Latin phrases quoted in the
introduction to the edition (and that portion of the introduction quoted
in toto by Charles Evans in his letter to The Genealogist, 3 (1982),
265-6), tell you everything you need to know relevant to this question:
William stated that a countess Ida was his mother in two (undated) gifts
to the priory designed for her spiritual benefit.

In answer to Vickie Elam White's query as to whether it is certain that it
is the first William Longespee who is the author of the charters in
question, that is shown by charter no. 481, in which the gift is made by
William for the souls of both his wife Ela and his mother countess Ida.
Note that this means that Ida was not necessarily dead at the time of the
donations, since Ela wasn't (Ela outlived him by over thirty years).

The editor of the cartulary tentatively suggested Ida, suo jure countess
of Boulogne, as a possible candidate for the mother. Evans went further
and said that he knew of no other contemporary candidate. The flaw in
this is that Evans was looking only at those countesses suo jure, that is,
heiresses of earldoms or of continental counties. My own experience is
limited to continental charters in this period, but there the use of
'comitissa' for the consort of a count was a long-established protocol, so
I see no reason not to widen the net to include such women, and that is
obviously what Douglas Richardson has done in selecting Ida, wife of Roger
Bigod, earl of Norfolk, as the true mother. Of course, I imagine he has
other evidence to persuade his readers of this selection. I look forward
to reading Mr. Richardson's study of the identity of William's mother when
it is finished and published.

Nat Taylor

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