GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives
Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-05 > 0864131765
From: Matman < >
Subject: Re: Wife of Manassas I, C. of Chalon
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 21:36:05 +0900
Jim Stevens wrote:
>
> The latest posting from Alan Wilson on the Burgundy thread mentioned line >
258 of Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners". This prompted me to hesitatingly >
blow the dust of the volume and look at the line myself. (258:38) > identifies
the wife of Manasses and mother of Giselbert as "Ermengarde, > princess of
Burgundy; d. 12 Apr 935; prob. dau. of BOSO, KING OF BURGUNDY > [sic. more
properly, I think, KING OF PROVENCE ]."
>
> As Boso was son of Budwine, Count of Metz, this brings us back full circle
Giselbert appears with his mother Ermengarde (I) in a charter of 924.
I don't think she died in 935, but she was dead by then.
Some of the confusion undoubtedly comes from the fact that
Giselbert's wife was also called Ermengarde (II) in a charter
of 942, which also names their daughter Adelaide. No document or
source says who the fathers of these different Ermengarde's were.
But some have speculated that the name Ermengarde was introduced into
these families by the marriage of Boso to Ermengarde of Italy (dau. of
Louis II, whose mum was Ermengarde d.851). Thus some see Ermengarde (I)
as a dau of Boso of Provence (d.887), therefore grand-dau of
Buvinus count of Metz (and I think this theory can be found somewhere
in the ES).
A old view was that Ermengarde (II) was the daughter of Richard the
Justiciar (d.921) brother of Boso: this was followed by Mckitterick in
her book on the Carolingians (1983). But there have been other theories
as well. The ES is not much help on this as it tends to plonk the
various (often contradictory) theories down in different volumes,
without any explanation. I wonder what Settipani says?
I think some have noted that there is yet another Ermengarde (III)
who appears as the first wife of Leotold of Macon and Besancon in
the charter of 935 (Cluny 432): she was a daughter of Manasses I and
sister of Giselbert (C.Bouchard 'Sword and Mitre').
Well I guess this thread should be renamed the 'Ermengarde's of
Burgundy'.
Matt
This thread:
| Re: Wife of Manassas I, C. of Chalon by Matman < > |