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From: "Chris Phillips" < >
Subject: Re: Confusion over John, Constable of Chester
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:29:53 +0100
References: <000001c5c5c2$cbaff1c0$8a0c020a@MyPortable> <1128090487.675334.98470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1128093888.450094.79740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1128119640.988259.115210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1128165232.076847.242650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>


wrote:
> Wasn't a case made (I think in the festschrift for Charles Evans edited
> by Lindsay L Brook) that the Robert who married Hawise of Chester was
> of the previous generation? Maybe this has been refuted since,
> apologies if so. The author didn't deny the existence of the Robert who
> was eldest son of Saher the first earl, but maintained that he dsp in
> 1217, Margaret being his first cousin rather than daughter (daughter
> instead of a Robert (decd. 1232) who was younger brother or
> half-brother of earl Saher).

As far as I know what happened was that Hawise's husband was originally
understood to be a son of Earl Saher (as reflected by vol. 7 of Complete
Peerage), but that Sidney Painter proposed instead that her husband was a
brother of Earl Saher. This convinced the author of the article on
Winchester which appeared in CP vol. 12, part 2.

However, the question was reexamined by Doris Grace Roth, in an article
entitled "Robert de Quincy, eldest son of the first Earl of Winchester" [The
Genealogist, vol.5, pp.221-225 (1984)], who produced evidence that Hawise's
husband was the son of Earl Saher after all. (The evidence had been in print
since the 17th century.)
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/winchester.shtml

If I remember correctly, there is no evidence that Earl Saher even had a
brother named Robert.

This version is accepted in the article by Richard D. Coram on Earl Saher in
the new edition of the Dictionary of National Biography - just as it was in
the original edition. Coram places Saher's marriage at about 1190.

Chris Phillips




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