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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-07 > 0868928236


From: Stewart Baldwin < >
Subject: Re: Normandy nobles/Tosny
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:57:16 GMT


(Sheila Cassidy) wrote:

[snip]

> ... Is Roger of
>Toeni's origin known? (I have read that he was descended
>from Malahule brother of Earl Rognvald or his wife Hilda)

Actually, the original statement is somewhat different from this.
Guillaume de Jumieges states that "Rogerius Toenites de stirpe mala
Hulcii, qui Rollonis Ducis patruus fuerant ...", and it is debated
whether the correct reading is "mala Hulcii" or "Malahulcii", so that
the passage is claiming that Roger's ancestry can be traced back to an
uncle of Rollo whose name was either Malahulc or Hulc, depending on
how the passage is read (the difference between capital and lowercase
letters being vague or nonexistent in many medieval manuscripts).

Trying to link [Mala]hulc as a brother of Rognvald (or his wife) is a
more serious problem. For one thing, such a link assumes that Rollo
was the son of Rognvald, which is far from certain. (I have explained
in great detail in past postings why I believe the Rollo-Rognvald
connection to be bogus.) Second, since the late Icelandic account
which gives Rognvald as the father of Rollo is in direct contradiction
with what the early Norman writers state about the origin of Rollo, it
is difficult to accept the Icelandic account of Rollo's origin without
also rejecting the Norman account. The Norman and Icelandic stories
of Rollo's origin are essentially incompatible, and sources which make
[Mala]hulc a brother of Rognvald (or his wife) are doing a sort of
"cut-and-paste" on the two different stories, ignoring all of the
contradictions.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that you can't have it both ways.
If you wish to accept [Mala]hulc as a real person (and Roger's
ancestor), then you should be prepared to reject the alleged
Rollo-Rognvald connection claimed by the Icelandic authors.

Stewart Baldwin

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