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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Elizabeth de Holand, bastard sister of Queen Philippe of Hainault
Date: 12 Oct 2002 17:03:36 -0700
Dear Newsgroup ~
Bert Kamp's recent post on the birth order of Queen Philippe of
Hainault (wife of King Edward III) and her sisters brought to mind
another question related to the comital Hainault family.
In the course of my research for the forthcoming Plantagenet Ancestry
book, I've encountered a grant dated 1367 whereby King Edward III of
England, at the instance of his wife, Philippe, granted to her bastard
sister, Elizabeth de Holand, twenty pounds of money annually at the
Exchequer [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1367-1370 (published
1913), pg.]. To my knowledge, this sister of Queen Philippe is
unknown in Hainault records and no one has attempted to identity her
in English records either.
Inasmuch as Queen Philippe's father, William, was Count of Hainault
and Holand, Brice Clagett has suggested to me privately the
possibility that Elizabeth de Holand obtained her surname from the
locality of Holand on the Continent. However, it is also possible
that she is identical with Elizabeth, wife of Robert de Holand, Knt.,
2nd Lord Holand, of Thorpe Waterville, co. Northampton. Elizabeth,
wife of Lord Holand, was married before 1343 and was evidently living
at the time King Edward III made the grant to his wife's bastard
sister. It is rather unusual that Lord Holand's wife's surname is not
known, as in the normal scheme of things, his wife should have derived
from one of England's better families and would be well documented in
the records. If Lord Holand's wife was foreign born, however, it
would explain her failure to appear as a daughter among the records of
contemporary families of baronial rank.
Robert de Holand, 2nd Lord Holand, and his wife, Elizabeth, had four
identifiable sons, Robert, Thomas, Gilbert (clerk), and John, as well
as one probable daughter, Margaret, wife of Marmaduke de Lumley. My
research shows that on Marmaduke de Lumley's death, Queen Philippe
acquired the marriage of his son and heir. If Marmaduke de Lumley's
wife, Margaret, was Queen Philippe's niece, then it would explain
Queen Philippe's interest in the Lumley family.
Perhaps Bert could comment on the likelihood that Queen Philippe's
bastard sister was known as "de Holand" due to her father being Count
of Hainault and Holand. Also, I'm aware that Queen Philippe had
several illegitimate brothers which appear in Hainault records.
Perhaps Bert could list them for us. Several American immigrants
descend from Elizabeth, wife of Lord Holand. So, if this matter
could be resolved, it might open up much new ancestry for many people
here on the newsgroup.
Beyond Queen Philippe's sister, Elizabeth de Holand, it appears Queen
Philippe also had another kinswoman with her in England who married a
member of the Louth family of Huntingdonshire. However, unlike the
exact reference to Elizabeth de Holand, it is unclear how the Louth
woman was related to Queen Philippe. More than likely one could
identity the Louth woman by examining the names of Queen Philippe's
damsels, as the Louth woman was presumably brought to England as a
damsel to Queen Philippe. I know of one American immigrant who
descends from the Louth family.
Lastly, sometime ago, a thread was generated regarding people's
favorite Queen in English history. My vote goes to Queen Philippe of
Hainault. She was the epitome of all that embodies a woman of state,
family, and virtue.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
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